How does Wound Allocation in Shooting work now?

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How does Wound Allocation in Shooting work now?

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:07 pm

I have no clue (no rulebook handy)---

Page 15 – Shooting Phase, Mixed Saves
Change subheader to “Mixed Saves and Characters”.
Change the first sentence to read “If the target unit contains
several different saving throws, or at least one character…”

Page 16 – Shooting Phase, Look Out, Sir
Delete “(or unsaved Wounds)” from the first paragraph.

Page 16 – Shooting Phase, Look Out, Sir
Change the second sentence of the second bullet point to:
“Determine which model in the unit is closest to the character,
and resolve the Wound against that model instead.”

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Re: How does Wound Allocation in Shooting work now?

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:15 pm

I think I get it now.

If a unit has at least one character in it, wounds are allocated and saved one-at-a-time.

If a wound is allocated to a character, Look-out-Sir can be used to allocate that wound to the nearest model to the character.

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Re: How does Wound Allocation in Shooting work now?

Post  gluvzer on Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:19 pm

“Mixed Saves and Characters”, you treat any unit with a character like it has mixed saves, meaning you allocate wounds first (then to LoS), then roll saves, so a unit with a character will never have “unsaved wounds” to LoS, that will already be handled before it becomes and unsaved wound.

If you have other models in front of the character you take their saves before LoS as normal.

Before, if you had a SM character with a 3+ inside a SM Unit, you would roll all your 3+ saves at once, then start applying “unsaved wounds” to models, and when it reached a character you could LoS it on to someone else.

Now, if you have a character, you treat it exactly the same as mixed saves, so you allocate a wound, roll a save, rinse and repeat. Once it reaches a character it becomes allocate a wound, roll LoS, roll save. So there’s never a case where you are using LoS on an unsaved wound.

Just to point out: they didn’t actually really buff or nerf LoS, they just adjusted how you allocate wounds when there’s a character so that you can’t abuse it. There was some thing going around a few weeks ago with taking LoS twice if you fail the first and your armor save or some such shenanigans.

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Re: How does Wound Allocation in Shooting work now?

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:22 pm

I see how that mistake might happen.

Roll a bunch of armour saves, start taking dudes off, LoS from a character to another dude, re-roll armour save.

This makes it much easier with less of a chance for error.

In a big, complex unit, the closest thing takes the hits until it dies, then onto the next thing. Much less abuse-able.

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Re: How does Wound Allocation in Shooting work now?

Post  gluvzer on Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:49 pm

It actually streamlines things a lot better imo.

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Re: How does Wound Allocation in Shooting work now?

Post  System Commander on Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:44 pm

So.. Just to clarify.. because i think some people are still confused.

You dont roll saves first in any situation now then allocate afterwards.

Example, and i bring this up only because i was talking to Adam last night and it didnt sound right.

Burna boys in a trukk with ghazgull. It blows and the unit take 5 wounds. Controlling players get to choose allocation order so he puts ghaz in front. Now.. You have to choose to make LOS before rolling armour. Not roll his 2+ save then allocate it if he fails. What you can do though is start rolling saves one at at a time and say he fails 3 .. Then LOS the remaining .. Correct?


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Re: How does Wound Allocation in Shooting work now?

Post  Lore Weaver on Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:48 pm

Lets say the 16 models in the Battlewagon take 8 wounds.

You allocate them according to random allocation (all models are the closest).

When a wound gets allocated to Ghaz, he can take the armour save *OR* make a single LoS! roll. If he makes the LoS! roll, the closest model to Ghaz (again, random) then rolls his armour save, if that model fails, it dies.

The only time you roll all the saves together is if it's a unit with no characters and no mixed saves.

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Re: How does Wound Allocation in Shooting work now?

Post  System Commander on Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:01 pm

Yup.. Thought so.

But.. When you look up wounds from exploded transport it doesnt say random.. Just says controlling player chooses how to allocate.

My initial thought was random allocation as well.. But i guess that would be painful if you say take 16 wounds or someyhing

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Re: How does Wound Allocation in Shooting work now?

Post  gluvzer on Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:11 pm

I think Mark has it wrong. Wounds from vehicle explosion are chosen to be taken on whatever models the controlling player wants, so if you don't want to take a wound on Ghaz don't (unless everyone takes a wound, then you have to).

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Re: How does Wound Allocation in Shooting work now?

Post  System Commander on Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:19 pm

So could ghaz take all of them if he wanted.

Ive got the whole regular shooting/allocation/LOS figured out.. But the vehicle thing seems confusing to me

You dont neccesarily line them how you would for real shooting to determine closest etc. Do you just allocate and roll or do you think you do it step by step.

Or you say ghaz takes five.. The rest on boyz.. Ive got it cnfused in my head and just looking for clarification help

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Re: How does Wound Allocation in Shooting work now?

Post  Lore Weaver on Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:02 pm

gluvzer wrote:I think Mark has it wrong. Wounds from vehicle explosion are chosen to be taken on whatever models the controlling player wants, so if you don't want to take a wound on Ghaz don't (unless everyone takes a wound, then you have to).

But you allocate the wounds before you roll saves. So you'd need to allocate all to Ghaz, start rolling one at a time, then if you fail one or two, start rolling LoS!

I'm pretty sure you can't change how the wounds are allocated while you're rolling saves (I could be wrong???)

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Re: How does Wound Allocation in Shooting work now?

Post  gluvzer on Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:10 pm

I think I'm going to be reading that part again!

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Re: How does Wound Allocation in Shooting work now?

Post  Lore Weaver on Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:11 pm

gluvzer wrote:I think I'm going to be reading that part again!

I'm not sure I'm right... that's just how I imagine it. The controlling player gets to chose who the closest model is, says it's Ghaz, Ghaz takes all the wounds, then you start making LoS rolls.

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Re: How does Wound Allocation in Shooting work now?

Post  Rhaevyn on Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:22 pm

the unit suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models embarked. the controlling player allocates those wounds as from a normal shooting hits.


So you could, as mark is saying, allocate all of those hits, one at a time, to gaz, until he dies. (making LoS for each if you want) and then choose another model.

I reckon it the same as lining up your dudes in a conga line in whatever order you like, and then resolving it where the closest model to the shooter is the one in front.

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Re: How does Wound Allocation in Shooting work now?

Post  System Commander on Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:37 pm

Thats how i imagined it as well.. But as i read it i realzed it was a bit odd.. Because it says allocate as shooting but theres no overarching parameter such as the allocate to closest first to base it on.

I would organize it in such a way myself but it doesnt seem clear in the book.

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Re: How does Wound Allocation in Shooting work now?

Post  Lore Weaver on Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:41 pm

You'd use Random Allocation. Page 15 in the big rule book.

Random Allocation
At times, you will not be able to tell which model is closest.
This usually happens when two or more models are equidistant
from the shooting unit, but can also occur if the position of the
attacker is unclear, such as with the Tyranid Mawloc's Terror
From the Deep special rule, a Callidus Assassin's Polyrnorphine
special rule or any attack said to use Random Allocation.

In these instances, randomly determine which model is treated
as being the closest - that model remains the closest until the
attack ends or the model is slain. If the model is slain and there
are still wounds left to allocate, simply randomise again if needs
be. If two or more models are equidistant from a firing unit,
randomise only between those equidistant models. Otherwise,
randomise between all of the models in the target unit.

Edit: Accidentally a word

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Re: How does Wound Allocation in Shooting work now?

Post  System Commander on Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:13 pm

But under transports exploding it says:

The unit suffers a number of str 4 hits equal to the number of models embarked. Resolve these as for shooting hits except that the controlling player allocates any wounds caused.

Its the controlling player allocation thats tripping me up.

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Re: How does Wound Allocation in Shooting work now?

Post  gluvzer on Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:43 pm

It's for sure not the random allocation for vehicle explosion results.

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Re: How does Wound Allocation in Shooting work now?

Post  Aegwymourn on Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:53 pm

makes me a little sad. its a perfect example of what should be random allocation and someone decided not to use it. i think they should just bring back 2nd edition and if your transport is blown up you die a horribly and probably fiery death.

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Re: How does Wound Allocation in Shooting work now?

Post  gluvzer on Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:55 pm

Aegwymourn wrote:makes me a little sad. its a perfect example of what should be random allocation and someone decided not to use it. i think they should just bring back 2nd edition and if your transport is blown up you die a horribly and probably fiery death.

Just like 4th you wouldn't see any transports and the swing would be back to all on foot. But they could make some fire death markers and sell them to us!

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Re: How does Wound Allocation in Shooting work now?

Post  Aegwymourn on Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:58 pm

gluvzer wrote:
Aegwymourn wrote:makes me a little sad. its a perfect example of what should be random allocation and someone decided not to use it. i think they should just bring back 2nd edition and if your transport is blown up you die a horribly and probably fiery death.

Just like 4th you wouldn't see any transports and the swing would be back to all on foot. But they could make some fire death markers and sell them to us!

psh, ironman rules apply. bring out that blowtorch and each dead model is reduced to slag Razz

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