NEW FAQ's AVAILABLE

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Re: NEW FAQ's AVAILABLE

Post  Lord_Commander_Stash on Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:57 pm

dusktiger wrote:where did you get that from? what i read in the guard FAQ is leman russ tanks are now treated as Heavy Vehicles, which means they can never go faster than Combat speed and never opt for Flat Out, but in exchange, they're treated as stationary when determining what weapons can fire. that's amounts to the same as what Lumbering Behemoth did to them in 5th, only now they refer to the main rulebook for that instead of describing it in the guard codex.

they didn't get nerfed, and plasma cannons 'can' in fact be fired along with the main gun.

Summary: Leman Russ tanks can only move 6" max. and they can fire every weapon whether they moved or not.

You can only fire other weapons as snap shots if you fire ordinance regardless if you moved or not...that is what the rules are as it stands in the main book anyway

With the old rule in the IG book you could still fire plasma cannons.

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Re: NEW FAQ's AVAILABLE

Post  System Commander on Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:05 am

Gotcha.. and you cant fire blast weapons as snap shots. My demolisher has multi nmelta sponsons and a lascannon up front.. so I could snap fire all of those.. but.. ugh.

When I first the read the rule i interpreted it as you could fire everything without a problem.. but I missed the ordnance problem. If you had plasma cannons on sponsons.. yeah that would bite.



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Re: NEW FAQ's AVAILABLE

Post  Lord_Commander_Stash on Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:08 am

System Commander wrote:Gotcha.. and you cant fire blast weapons as snap shots. My demolisher has multi nmelta sponsons and a lascannon up front.. so I could snap fire all of those.. but.. ugh.

When I first the read the rule i interpreted it as you could fire everything without a problem.. but I missed the ordnance problem. If you had plasma cannons on sponsons.. yeah that would bite.



I think they made an oversight AGAIN with the FAQ not realizing its implications to the way the lumbering behemoth rule was intended to work.

The I.G. list is awesome in this edition, but after 15 years of playing you would think GW would actually improve upon their handling of the rules.


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Re: NEW FAQ's AVAILABLE

Post  judchic on Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:16 am

this also might be overlooked,
Q: Flyers are entitled to choose whether or not to use the Skyfire
special rule at the start of each Shooting phase. Can Swooping
Flying Monstrous Creatures also do this? (p49)
A: Yes.

so your tyrants and princes can attempt to shoot down aircraft now with more than a 1 in 6 to hit.

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Re: NEW FAQ's AVAILABLE

Post  Lord_Commander_Stash on Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:20 am

judchic wrote:this also might be overlooked,
Q: Flyers are entitled to choose whether or not to use the Skyfire
special rule at the start of each Shooting phase. Can Swooping
Flying Monstrous Creatures also do this? (p49)
A: Yes.

so your tyrants and princes can attempt to shoot down aircraft now with more than a 1 in 6 to hit.


Where does it say flyers can use skyfire?? Ive never seen this

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Re: NEW FAQ's AVAILABLE

Post  Rhaevyn on Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:34 am

Page 81. top right. Flyers can choose weather or not to use the kyfire special rule at the start of the shooting phase.
It could be worded better, as it doesnt specifically say they gain the USR. but combined with this FAQ, it's pretty clear that all flyers have Skyfire.




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Re: NEW FAQ's AVAILABLE

Post  dusktiger on Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:49 am

Lord_Commander_Stash wrote:

You can only fire other weapons as snap shots if you fire ordinance regardless if you moved or not...that is what the rules are as it stands in the main book anyway

With the old rule in the IG book you could still fire plasma cannons.

ohhh, i see. i wasnt aware their main gun was Ordnance. well thats just stupid. it should be that you fire everything. well at least the executioner russ shouldnt have this problem; you should get 5 plasma cannon templates per turn out of it. and really, that's the one that should have plasma sponsons out of them all, really. the rest i'd probably field the heavy bolters for the reason of snap fire; rather get 6 dice rolling for 6s than 2 dice.

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Re: NEW FAQ's AVAILABLE

Post  Lord_Commander_Stash on Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:59 am

dusktiger wrote:
Lord_Commander_Stash wrote:

You can only fire other weapons as snap shots if you fire ordinance regardless if you moved or not...that is what the rules are as it stands in the main book anyway

With the old rule in the IG book you could still fire plasma cannons.

ohhh, i see. i wasnt aware their main gun was Ordnance. well thats just stupid. it should be that you fire everything. well at least the executioner russ shouldnt have this problem; you should get 5 plasma cannon templates per turn out of it. and really, that's the one that should have plasma sponsons out of them all, really. the rest i'd probably field the heavy bolters for the reason of snap fire; rather get 6 dice rolling for 6s than 2 dice.

The plasma cannons were great on the demolisher since it was all AP2 weapons.

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Re: NEW FAQ's AVAILABLE

Post  Roland on Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:50 pm

The only Russ's affected are the standard Russ and the Demolisher. All the other turret weapons are Heavy.

As I understand it, taking a standard Russ meant you were a Noob anyways:)

So the go-to tanks are the Executioner w/ Plasma sponsons and.... Vanquisher seems nice for tank hunting. Str8 AP2, 2d6 armor pen from 72". Pair it with a hull mounted LasC.

Sorry Stash, I don't get your complaining. You say they didn't fix things in the first FAQ, they release the second FAQ hours after you complain, and they have fixed 95%+ of the issues people have brought up (including your Grav Chute Insertion complaint); 2 Russ's are worse than before and the other 5 are WAY better. They have done all this in about 2 months. I'm sorry but I think your argument doesn't hold water. For a company that (you are quite right here) has a history of screwing up on rules, they have done a simply AWESOME job with 6th.

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Re: NEW FAQ's AVAILABLE

Post  Lord_Commander_Stash on Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:50 pm

Roland wrote:The only Russ's affected are the standard Russ and the Demolisher. All the other turret weapons are Heavy.

As I understand it, taking a standard Russ meant you were a Noob anyways:)

So the go-to tanks are the Executioner w/ Plasma sponsons and.... Vanquisher seems nice for tank hunting. Str8 AP2, 2d6 armor pen from 72". Pair it with a hull mounted LasC.

Sorry Stash, I don't get your complaining. You say they didn't fix things in the first FAQ, they release the second FAQ hours after you complain, and they have fixed 95%+ of the issues people have brought up (including your Grav Chute Insertion complaint); 2 Russ's are worse than before and the other 5 are WAY better. They have done all this in about 2 months. I'm sorry but I think your argument doesn't hold water. For a company that (you are quite right here) has a history of screwing up on rules, they have done a simply AWESOME job with 6th.

My complaint was not addressing the rules as intended. The new FAQ also doesnt do this.

Yes it made the non ordinance Russes better, but only the executioner is worth taking...the others are straight up inferior to other choices in the book
Its fairly frustrating having a couple hundred dollars of painstakingly painted models which are useless at a 5 second whim of a decision put into a GW FAQ.

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Re: NEW FAQ's AVAILABLE

Post  Aegwymourn on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:27 pm

Lord_Commander_Stash wrote:
Roland wrote:The only Russ's affected are the standard Russ and the Demolisher. All the other turret weapons are Heavy.

As I understand it, taking a standard Russ meant you were a Noob anyways:)

So the go-to tanks are the Executioner w/ Plasma sponsons and.... Vanquisher seems nice for tank hunting. Str8 AP2, 2d6 armor pen from 72". Pair it with a hull mounted LasC.

Sorry Stash, I don't get your complaining. You say they didn't fix things in the first FAQ, they release the second FAQ hours after you complain, and they have fixed 95%+ of the issues people have brought up (including your Grav Chute Insertion complaint); 2 Russ's are worse than before and the other 5 are WAY better. They have done all this in about 2 months. I'm sorry but I think your argument doesn't hold water. For a company that (you are quite right here) has a history of screwing up on rules, they have done a simply AWESOME job with 6th.

My complaint was not addressing the rules as intended. The new FAQ also doesnt do this.

Yes it made the non ordinance Russes better, but only the executioner is worth taking...the others are straight up inferior to other choices in the book
Its fairly frustrating having a couple hundred dollars of painstakingly painted models which are useless at a 5 second whim of a decision put into a GW FAQ.

perhaps they feel that with the plasma cannon sponsons and the changes to blast templates it was under costed and intentionally decided to keep it that way? i dont know if it is or not but perhaps they are aware of the concern but decided to not include it for some reason.

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Re: NEW FAQ's AVAILABLE

Post  Roland on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:51 pm

Lord_Commander_Stash wrote:
Roland wrote:The only Russ's affected are the standard Russ and the Demolisher. All the other turret weapons are Heavy.

As I understand it, taking a standard Russ meant you were a Noob anyways:)

So the go-to tanks are the Executioner w/ Plasma sponsons and.... Vanquisher seems nice for tank hunting. Str8 AP2, 2d6 armor pen from 72". Pair it with a hull mounted LasC.

Sorry Stash, I don't get your complaining. You say they didn't fix things in the first FAQ, they release the second FAQ hours after you complain, and they have fixed 95%+ of the issues people have brought up (including your Grav Chute Insertion complaint); 2 Russ's are worse than before and the other 5 are WAY better. They have done all this in about 2 months. I'm sorry but I think your argument doesn't hold water. For a company that (you are quite right here) has a history of screwing up on rules, they have done a simply AWESOME job with 6th.

My complaint was not addressing the rules as intended. The new FAQ also doesnt do this.

Yes it made the non ordinance Russes better, but only the executioner is worth taking...the others are straight up inferior to other choices in the book
Its fairly frustrating having a couple hundred dollars of painstakingly painted models which are useless at a 5 second whim of a decision put into a GW FAQ.

RAW is easy to interpet. RAI assumes you *KNOW* what the writer's intent was.

We are gonna have to agree to disagree on the second part. Did you enjoy modeling the Russ's? Did you enjoy painting them? Was that enjoyment worth the $50-75 you paid for them? I'm probably not the person so complain about models being made useless/not worth their points. I have AC Landspeeders, Jetpack-less Vanguard, Powerfist sgts w/ boltpistols, and a full Bike Squad that has neither meltaguns nor a powerfist. I wouldn't say the executioner is the only one worth taking, it's probably the most versitile. With the increase in infantry in 6th, the punisher is a viable choice and the vanquisher is a decent choice is you want anti-tank. You do not have to play a 100% optimized list.

You seem bound and determined that nothing GW is doing is good enough, and that's your choice. If the way GW is running things is ruining the game for you, I'm sorry for that. If you liked 4th or 5th better, I'm sure someone would be willing to play those editions and the old codexes with you. (4th ed rules, vs 3.5 daemonhunters anyone? or 3.5 CSM?)

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Re: NEW FAQ's AVAILABLE

Post  Spamus Eatus on Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:44 pm

I'm with Beau here on the Russes. Take the exterminator for example. Move 6" and fire ERRYTHING at regular BS. This is actually a buff from before the 1.1 FAQs, where several of the weapons would be snapshots.

Even in the case of the ordnance russes, the new ruling only hurts plasma sponsons and the heavy flamers. (I do disagree thematically with not being able to snapfire a flame weapon, but whatever)

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Re: NEW FAQ's AVAILABLE

Post  Guest on Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:28 pm

Roland wrote:Black templar and dark Angel venerable dreads are now ws/bs 5

Thats a nice upgrade

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Re: NEW FAQ's AVAILABLE

Post  Roland on Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:03 pm

I find it rather funny DA dreads are more expensive, but Ven Dreads are cheaper.

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re faq

Post  Commander James of the Ul on Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:34 pm

And the good news with the battle russ's is if you "maged" the turret you can easily make it a vanquisher. muhahahah A squad of vanquisher with a hull las. muhahahahah oh oh and put in my boy pask. muahahaha. Bye bye an armor.

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Re: NEW FAQ's AVAILABLE

Post  Lord_Commander_Stash on Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:15 am

Aegwymourn wrote:

perhaps they feel that with the plasma cannon sponsons and the changes to blast templates it was under costed and intentionally decided to keep it that way? i dont know if it is or not but perhaps they are aware of the concern but decided to not include it for some reason.

There havent been any changes to blast templates since the codex came out other than they are full strength even without the centre of the template being on vehicles...not a big deal for str 7 templates


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Re: NEW FAQ's AVAILABLE

Post  Lord_Commander_Stash on Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:23 am

Roland wrote:RAW is easy to interpet. RAI assumes you *KNOW* what the writer's intent was.

We are gonna have to agree to disagree on the second part. Did you enjoy modeling the Russ's? Did you enjoy painting them? Was that enjoyment worth the $50-75 you paid for them? I'm probably not the person so complain about models being made useless/not worth their points. I have AC Landspeeders, Jetpack-less Vanguard, Powerfist sgts w/ boltpistols, and a full Bike Squad that has neither meltaguns nor a powerfist. I wouldn't say the executioner is the only one worth taking, it's probably the most versitile. With the increase in infantry in 6th, the punisher is a viable choice and the vanquisher is a decent choice is you want anti-tank. You do not have to play a 100% optimized list.

You seem bound and determined that nothing GW is doing is good enough, and that's your choice. If the way GW is running things is ruining the game for you, I'm sorry for that. If you liked 4th or 5th better, I'm sure someone would be willing to play those editions and the old codexes with you. (4th ed rules, vs 3.5 daemonhunters anyone? or 3.5 CSM?)

The rule was to allow Russes to fire everything since ordinance guns had shooting restrictions, and Russes could take 3 other weapons. I am fairly shure the designers wanted people to use Russes to full effect/ not have people not take certain options cause they sunk points into things they couldnt use.

I do not believe the execusioner is viable since is is 250pts and plasma weapons can glance their own vehicle now....each time it shoots it rolls 5 gets hot rolls.

4 chimeras let alone a manticore are better than 1 punisher or exterminator

The melta cannon hell hound is leaps and bounds better than the vanquisher. let alone melta gun vets or storm troopers deepstriking for a fraction of the points.

No you dont have to have an optimised list, but there are just no brainer choices which are better than the non ordinance russes.

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Re: NEW FAQ's AVAILABLE

Post  Spamus Eatus on Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:40 am

PS, if you look carefully, you will see that the executioner cannon does not have the "gets hot" rule, so you would only be rolling for the sponsons.

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Re: NEW FAQ's AVAILABLE

Post  Roland on Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:35 am

Lord_Commander_Stash wrote:

The rule was to allow Russes to fire everything since ordinance guns had shooting restrictions, and Russes could take 3 other weapons. I am fairly shure the designers wanted people to use Russes to full effect/ not have people not take certain options cause they sunk points into things they couldnt use.

No the rule was so they could fire the turret weapon and it not count to their allowable shots. If moving they could fire the turret and ONE other gun, if stationary, all.
Under the current rules, all Russ other than the std and the demolisher can fire everything, every turn, until they die. The std and Dem can still fire everything as a snap shot, unless its Plasma or Flamers.
Lord_Commander_Stash wrote:
I do not believe the execusioner is viable since is is 250pts and plasma weapons can glance their own vehicle now....each time it shoots it rolls 5 gets hot rolls.
See Ben's comment, only the sponsons have get hot. If you think it is not worth 250 pts, you haven't played one. It kills everything short of AV14.
Lord_Commander_Stash wrote:
4 chimeras let alone a manticore are better than 1 punisher or exterminator
I didn't say their weren't better options, simply that the punisher was a viable option. I never mentioned the exterminator.
Lord_Commander_Stash wrote:
The melta cannon hell hound is leaps and bounds better than the vanquisher. let alone melta gun vets or storm troopers deepstriking for a fraction of the points.

Melta Cannon vs Vanquisher
36"? vs 72"
both Str8, AP2
double dice @ 1/2 range, vs always double dice.
Please elaborate.

This is becoming more and more "I can't take my Demolisher w/ Plasma Cannon Sponsons anymore." Yes, you can, you are simply choosing not to b/c you feel there are better choices. Why don't you wait a month for the next FAQ, Heavy Vehicles may get a change so that Ord doesn't count as Ord with them.




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Re: NEW FAQ's AVAILABLE

Post  Lore Weaver on Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:48 am

Beau Beau the Super Schmoe wrote:This is becoming more and more "I can't take my Demolisher w/ Plasma Cannon Sponsons anymore." Yes, you can, you are simply choosing not to b/c you feel there are better choices. Why don't you wait a month for the next FAQ, Heavy Vehicles may get a change so that Ord doesn't count as Ord with them.

GW's getting quite better regarding this. I bet we see some FAQ's before the end of the year again, or even a 1.1a FAQ for Imperial Guard, if they didn't intend this.

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Re: NEW FAQ's AVAILABLE

Post  Lord_Commander_Stash on Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:07 pm

Roland wrote:
Lord_Commander_Stash wrote:

The rule was to allow Russes to fire everything since ordinance guns had shooting restrictions, and Russes could take 3 other weapons. I am fairly shure the designers wanted people to use Russes to full effect/ not have people not take certain options cause they sunk points into things they couldnt use.

No the rule was so they could fire the turret weapon and it not count to their allowable shots. If moving they could fire the turret and ONE other gun, if stationary, all.
Under the current rules, all Russ other than the std and the demolisher can fire everything, every turn, until they die. The std and Dem can still fire everything as a snap shot, unless its Plasma or Flamers.
Lord_Commander_Stash wrote:
I do not believe the execusioner is viable since is is 250pts and plasma weapons can glance their own vehicle now....each time it shoots it rolls 5 gets hot rolls.
See Ben's comment, only the sponsons have get hot. If you think it is not worth 250 pts, you haven't played one. It kills everything short of AV14.
Lord_Commander_Stash wrote:
4 chimeras let alone a manticore are better than 1 punisher or exterminator
I didn't say their weren't better options, simply that the punisher was a viable option. I never mentioned the exterminator.
Lord_Commander_Stash wrote:
The melta cannon hell hound is leaps and bounds better than the vanquisher. let alone melta gun vets or storm troopers deepstriking for a fraction of the points.

Melta Cannon vs Vanquisher
36"? vs 72"
both Str8, AP2
double dice @ 1/2 range, vs always double dice.
Please elaborate.

This is becoming more and more "I can't take my Demolisher w/ Plasma Cannon Sponsons anymore." Yes, you can, you are simply choosing not to b/c you feel there are better choices. Why don't you wait a month for the next FAQ, Heavy Vehicles may get a change so that Ord doesn't count as Ord with them.




The rule was written that way to allow ordinance to fire with all other weapons. it was written to work in 5th.

My mistake on the executioner

You didnt mention exterminator someone else did...was easier then multiple posts

Vanquisher cannon hits on a 4+ melta cannon hits easier than that especially since blasts are no longer half str if they dont land on a vehicle.
Melta cannon is Ap1 not 2

For long range infiltrating/deepstriking/outflanking small cheap units with a couple meltaguns at BS4 are a better option. Or a manticore since a manticore will probably hull point a vehicle to death better than the vanquisher.

Well yeah this is kinda all about the demolisher being useless...really it was the only viable Russ option all along. It did the same thing the executioner did but for cheaper and was more versatile. You need to kill alot of marines to make up 250pts. Having my 3 Russes being not great last edition I was ok with cause I had other selections, my vanquisher being nerfed I ate too, but now 2 demolishers get to make $400 of tanks sitting in a box.

Perhaps the vanquisher might come out, but unless I am fighting a land rainder, I am just paying points for it to sit there looking schlong


Mainly thought its frustraiting that GW still doesnt think things through.

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Re: NEW FAQ's AVAILABLE

Post  Spamus Eatus on Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:43 pm

One thing I would REALLY like to stress here Stash, is that you have been gone for an edition or two you have said. You need to take the "does a unit make its points back" mentality and get rid of it. Now it is "does this unit fit into my army and allow it to complete the missions" If that involves blasting huge swaths of enemies away, then super.

Let's take the Executioner. It's 250 pts, at least. There is a chance you won't kill off 250 pts of enemy models, sure. HOWEVER, if you have ever been on the receiving end of one, it is a PRIORTY TARGET. You simply cannot allow it to live for too long or it will vaporize half your infantry. So, it gets focus fired/assaulted. Now in the turn or two that I am trying to knock the Exterminator out, the IG army is able to move into position, shoot at otherwise occupied units, etc. Since you are an edition or two out of the loop, it might take a few more games to appreciate the new levels of finesse that units have now.

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Re: NEW FAQ's AVAILABLE

Post  System Commander on Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:21 pm

Stash played alot of 5th edition.

I do think its pretty heavily priced for what it does now though. .. Especially when like stash mentioned youve got the manticore which is crazy now ..

I do like the looks of a regular leman withjust heavy bolters. But firing the cannon and then just getting snap shots for the heavy bolters does kind of suck.

Im thinking they might adjust the rule . ? Its just that ordnance firing and forcing the others as snap shits that messng things up.

Youve still got the best flyer in the game though.. Just go buy another vendetta. You havent bought any new models in a few years anyway.. Time to upgrade!

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Re: NEW FAQ's AVAILABLE

Post  Lore Weaver on Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:23 pm

Silly Robyn wrote:Youve still got the best flyer in the game though.. Just go buy another vendetta. You havent bought any new models in a few years anyway.. Time to upgrade!

IG doesn't get Night Scythes.

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Re: NEW FAQ's AVAILABLE

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