1500 hand-to-hand 'crons... tough to write

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1500 hand-to-hand 'crons... tough to write

Post  Lore Weaver on Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:06 pm

Having a tough time figuring this out. I'd like to use Imotek, 20xFlayed Ones, Praetorians... I think this has to be it.

That said, I do like the list, Imotekh and the Time Tek go in the Ark, fly around and annoy. The 10 warriors and Destro Tek stay in the backfield, shoot guass at stuff and hold an objective. They might be in reserve, depending on the situation on the board.

20 Flayed Ones will either infiltrate to assault turn 2, or they'll use Imotek's bloodswarm nano-scarabs to deepstrike in without a scatter.

Destroyer Lord and Praetorians kill things, and they'll start killing on Turn 2. Same with the Wraiths (depends on the board setup). I'll be going first only 1/2 the time, as I'll always try and make my opponent deploy first.

Not sure if I'd be too concerned about many armies... nothing springs to mind. 20 flayed ones get 80 attacks on the charge.


HQ---

1. Imotek 225
Court
1xTime Tek with Chrono 40
1xDestro Tek 35
= 300

2. Destroyer Lord 125
Scarabs 20, Weave 15, Orb 30
= 190

= 490

Elites---

1. 20xFlayed Ones = 260
2. 5xPraetorians with Voidblade & Caster = 200

= 460

Troops---

1. 5xWarriors in a Ghost Ark = 180
2. 10xWarriors = 130

= 310

Fast Attack---

1. 6xWraiths 210
3xWhip Coils 30

= 240

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Re: 1500 hand-to-hand 'crons... tough to write

Post  Rhaevyn on Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:23 am

Seems like not enough units on the board Mark. Lot of objectives in those missions

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Re: 1500 hand-to-hand 'crons... tough to write

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:05 am

Rhaevyn wrote:Seems like not enough units on the board Mark. Lot of objectives in those missions

That crossed my mind too. I think 3 troops minimum at 1500 now. The 20 flayed one list might be an 1850 list... Ot even 2000

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Re: 1500 hand-to-hand 'crons... tough to write

Post  Rhaevyn on Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:48 am

is 20 flayed ones that good though? perhaps i'm missing something. but my (admittedly sloppy) math says that a 10 man unit of CSM are going to kill 1.5 FO with overwatch, 4 with I4 melee and then tie combat with you. life gets worse if i get a round of shooting in.


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Re: 1500 hand-to-hand 'crons... tough to write

Post  System Commander on Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:21 am

Nope.. Flayed ones arent that good.. But i think Mark is committed to at least trying them out.. Smile


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Re: 1500 hand-to-hand 'crons... tough to write

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:01 am

Here's a slightly different take...

Two beefy mini-deathstar units in Ghost Arks. (Overlord & Two Court Lords)

Still a little shy on Scoring. One option would be to drop the wraiths for 10 warriors, or 5 warriors and a transmog cryptek, should have points to give Mindshackle Scarabs to the two scythe lords then (15 points each)

Another option is to drop the wraiths for 10 scarabs, or 8 scarabs and mindshackle ont he two scythe lords.

Each Overlord has 2+/3++, Imotekh's got the underrated Guantlet of Fire and two buddies with Scythes, then 5 mooks. The Scythe Lord has the same setup. Again, they'll be assaulting on Turn 2.

20 Flayed Ones, I believe, is the critical mass that makes them effective. You should always only have 1 turn to shoot at them, and 1/3rd of them stand back up, then they assault the next turn. They do have to choose they're target carefully, but I'm betting 15 of them get the charge, which is still 60 attacks (30 hits, 15 wounds, 5 dead). Bolter overwatch from 10 dudes will get 3 hits, 1.5 wounds, .75 saves, so 1 dead.

If they got an assault off on Terminators, they'd kill a pair of those too, importantly, before they get to hit. Then they'll tie that unit up for a bit before they move on to the next unit. If they can kill two scoring units a game, they're worth the points. And they're a massive distraction.

Flayed One's do suck... lets make that clear, I've played them enough to know, but the concept of the 20 Flayed One unit has always been appealing to me. It might be one of those "in 2000 point games" things though, where I don't gimp my list to fit them in.

HQ---

1. Imotek 225
Court
2xLord with Scythe, Weave, Scarabs 150
= 375

2. Necron Overlord 90 (175)
Scythe 10, Weave 15, Shifter 45, Scarabs 15
Court
2xLord with Scythe, Weave, Orb 180
= 355

HQ Total = 730

Elites ---

1. 20xFlayed Ones = 260

Troops ---

1. 5xWarriors in an Ark = 180
2. 5xWarriors in an Ark = 180

= 360

Fast Attack ---

1. 4xWraiths 140
1 Whip Coil 10
= 150

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Re: 1500 hand-to-hand 'crons... tough to write

Post  System Commander on Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:06 pm

Hmm .. Well if your gonna try em 20 is the ticket. Anyrhing less and they are easy to ignore.

That 4+ save is rough.. And not having fearless seems like theyd be easy to break.

Giving them some support seems like a neccessity..

I do like that they can infiltrate. Deep striking in 20 guys mighy start to get a bit hairy. Thats a middle guy plus 2 full rings for sure.. does it get into a third ring ?

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Re: 1500 hand-to-hand 'crons... tough to write

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:54 pm

Ya, you get to a 3rd ring. If you deep-strike without a scatter, it's not too scary, otherwise flank-marching them on the board isn't bad. Infiltrate isn't bad, but you need to be able to get that round 2 assault.

They get eaten alive by heavy bolters and heavy flamers. With LD 10 though, they won't break often, and you'll generally get to make the RP rolls, so you'll often get 1/3rd of your casualties back.

Against Marines, you'd really need to pick a clever spot on the field, against anything else, just find somewhere good to be and be there, can't be ignored, that's too many attacks. On the charge, it's equivalent to 20 Orks, but many times more resilient.

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Re: 1500 hand-to-hand 'crons... tough to write

Post  Rhaevyn on Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:25 pm

they are a nice distraction, if nothing else. I sometimes use lesser summoned daemons the same way. except.. well, they are scoring.
infiltrate over deepstrike every time for me if i had that option. just so much more reliable and threatening. Doesn't take a masters degree to deduce that three rings of dudes on small bases looks so much like a Template...

whatever you charge with them could be double teamed by one of your "deathstar" units.

one thing i have to ask though, are the arks that important? with such resilient troops, i would just field blobs of them and walk them up the field asking the guy across the table what he has for me...

"wut you gonna do suckka? you really want to shoot me and see those guys stand right back up? you going to charge me and watch your lord stab himself on my scarabs? wut you gonna DO?!!"


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Re: 1500 hand-to-hand 'crons... tough to write

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:37 pm

They'd reliably assault on turn two out of the open-topped ark. Move up 12", flat-out 6", move up 6", disembark 6", assault 2D6"

That's 32" of threat range, and the arks have a 4+ save on the other turn, then they float around and guass things, repair any fallen warriors, etc...

If you deepstrike the Flayed Ones in, you run in the movement phase to get some separation, just don't roll a "1" :-)

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Re: 1500 hand-to-hand 'crons... tough to write

Post  Rhaevyn on Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:27 am

you know what? new List coming from this guy right here soon.

i just realized how awesome CSM lesser daemons are in 6th.

20 fearless MEQ with a 5+ invuln save that can assault the turn they deepstrike in. Talk about a scoring tarpit your never getting out of.

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Re: 1500 hand-to-hand 'crons... tough to write

Post  Spamus Eatus on Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:52 am

Explain why Imhotek is in the CC Cron list? You might be better off with Obyron or Anrakyr for CC purposes, although he does bring some funky goodies to the game.

Obyron is a challenge machine, and Anrakyr on a barge is nasty, especially with furious charge bumping him to that magical S8. Would also allow you to have a unit of immortals with furious charge and counter attack for some extra flavour in a CC list.

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Re: 1500 hand-to-hand 'crons... tough to write

Post  Aegwymourn on Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:01 am

If Imotek is the one im thinking of probably for the Seize roll bonus and Nightfight/storm shenanigans would be my guess.

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Re: 1500 hand-to-hand 'crons... tough to write

Post  Lore Weaver on Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:22 am

Imotek can tarpit anything with his T5 2+/3++ save and rerolls to hit and wound.

Nightlight cover, seize are big reasons, blood swarm nanoscarabs too though

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Re: 1500 hand-to-hand 'crons... tough to write

Post  Planes on Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:58 pm

Yes, Imotekh is the lord of Flayed One Surprise.

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