Tau Drones are not characters

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Re: Tau Drones are not characters

Post  Lore Weaver on Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:09 am

canadin wrote:What actually scares me more is Eldrad + Dark Eldar.

Imagine Any unit with Asdrubale Vect AND Eldar attached!!! (Harlequins, witches, warlocks, archon court mounted on asdrubale's special raider, Beast master squad, warlock bikers, .... anything rly)

Yep, if Vect joins an Eldar unit, you can fortune them. On the internets they call this the "Harlistar", usually base army of Eldar, with allies of Vect and some dudes in a Venom.

The downside with these big units is that 6th has many more objectives than 5th did, so if you can tarpit or ignore the big unit and kill other things, the deathstar weilder is kinda hooped. If you go look at Frankies games where he plays the harlistar over at frontlinegaming, you can see him lose to Orks and Chaos Daemons. (although a ridiculous Ork list and a silly flying circus Daemon list)

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Re: Tau Drones are not characters

Post  miv305 on Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:55 am

I ran a Farseer, Archon and 10 man mob of harlequins once...it was pretty good. Biggest thing to remember is that they have hit and run at I7 so be prepared, they're slippery bastards Smile

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Re: Tau Drones are not characters

Post  Matthew G on Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:57 am

canadin wrote:What actually scares me more is Eldrad + Dark Eldar.

Imagine Any unit with Asdrubale Vect AND Eldar attached!!! (Harlequins, witches, warlocks, archon court mounted on asdrubale's special raider, Beast master squad, warlock bikers, .... anything rly)

Actually that also has a statement worth noting.
Vect has preferred enemy against dark eldar and eldar. Dark eldar is not an eldar unit either. So those eldar powers still cannot be cast on them, battle brothers or not.

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Re: Tau Drones are not characters

Post  miv305 on Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:07 am

@Matt G:

Vect is in a unit of Codex Eldar Harlequins, the unit is the target, not Vect, so he benefits from it.

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Re: Tau Drones are not characters

Post  Matthew G on Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:04 pm

Removed because someone finds me offensive


Last edited by Matthew G on Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:46 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Tau Drones are not characters

Post  System Commander on Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:28 pm

Matt.. You have been the doom and gloom of 6th since it launched... And your still rallying negatively on it.

Constructive comments.. Come on. Why do i have to even mention your comment was wrong.


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Re: Tau Drones are not characters

Post  miv305 on Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:20 pm

How is it any different then a Blood Angels Librarian casting prescience on an allied squad of battle brothers (say IG melta vets)? Both involve letting a unit reroll dice, but somehow if it's not your army doing it it's beardy. I think the real issue here is pretty obvious...

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Re: Tau Drones are not characters

Post  Planes on Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:51 pm

Honestly, while it can be frustrating fighting a squad with decent invuln. and rerolls saves, it doesn't bother me that much. If lists fielding such shenanigans become prevalent around here I'll just have to start fielding the vacuum list to counter. You get to reroll saves, not tests, after all. Beamers, Labs, 'Liths. That, or just rain hell with large blasts, and then follow up with a challenge on the annoying IC.

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Re: Tau Drones are not characters

Post  Lore Weaver on Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:40 pm

LOL, Issue a challenge with the tesseract labyrinth lord.

Zandrekh's a Phaeron right?

Zandy, Oby, and 6 Wraiths with Exile Rays. Port around the board exiling things. I'd love seeing those T3 eldar taking strength saves. If they charge in combat, those rending wraiths are all S6, so no FNP.

If your opponent assaults you, you can port out next turn with Oby.

That unit's a bit pricey though...

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Re: Tau Drones are not characters

Post  gluvzer on Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:06 pm

Who would've thought? Another thread turned into a discussion between Planes and LW about Necron shenanigans Wink Razz

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Re: Tau Drones are not characters

Post  System Commander on Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:09 pm

Those crons are tricksy

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Re: Tau Drones are not characters

Post  Rhaevyn on Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:20 pm

=) gluvz.

the saving grace of most of this stuff is that it is all solved with enough ranged firepower from the right angle.
So what if your 700 XXYZ combo of doom totally destroys my 105 point squad/dread/whatever. you still have a max of what? 3? good combat rounds to really use all that crap. sacrificial units and good placement can defeat a lot of this stuff.

The armies that scare me of are the resilient ones with plenty of troops. (here's looking at you Deathwing. plague marines, etc)

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Re: Tau Drones are not characters

Post  Planes on Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:55 pm

What can I say, the further into 6th we get and the more "look at his billion re-rollable saves" we see, the more it becomes obvious.

I have an App for that.

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Re: Tau Drones are not characters

Post  Matthew G on Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:40 pm

Removed because someone finds me offensive.


Last edited by Matthew G on Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:45 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Tau Drones are not characters

Post  Planes on Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:08 pm

There are five approaches to dealing with such squads, though admittedly the fifth one kind of sucks. When dealing with things like 2+/3++/lots of mooks for LoS, there are the following options:

1) Try to overload the system. Dakka, Tesla, Pie Plates, bulk Flamers, you name it. Bring enough pain, and double 1's will happen.

2) Ignore the unit, kill the opponent's troops instead. Take objectives.

3) Non-traditional attacks. Necron's get them whole-sale, but I know other Codices get them. I'm pretty sure Space Wolves have two forms of it, and Grey Knights get at least one, though Heroic Sacrifice kind of sucks for use as a reliable removal mechanic.

4) If the squad is not Fearless, break them. Tank shock, sustained sniper fire, Nightmare Shrouds, Codex: Daemons in general.

5) Do none of the above and scoop.

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Re: Tau Drones are not characters

Post  dusktiger on Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:46 pm

in the end, it really comes down to "stop bitching and play the damn game, foo!" and just make sure to bring your backup; your night elf MOHAWK!

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Re: Tau Drones are not characters

Post  System Commander on Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:15 am

Matthew G wrote:Come on now. How can you not be phased by any of this? And sorrrry for speaking my mind. What ever. If my opponent is going to make a list like that by giving a 2++ with reroll, i get to Bitch about it. don't like what i say then don't read my posts.

I read every single post made on this site, I'm not goin to skip yours cause your whining although I'd love to.

Add something constructive instead of complaining. If the new edition of 40k is not your thing, maybe its time to leave the site because your obviously not enjoying the conversations.

Your going to be seeing alot of re-rollable saves popping up, its here and going to stay.


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Re: Tau Drones are not characters

Post  Matthew G on Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:53 am

Removed because someone finds me offensive.


Last edited by Matthew G on Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:44 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Tau Drones are not characters

Post  Planes on Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:43 am

Matthew G wrote: Instead of flaming me, counter argue...

Simply saying "it's beardy", though, isn't really an argument. It's an inflammatory remark backed by nothing constructive.

Is a squad like that annoying to fight? Hell yes. But if the person dumped as many points into it as needed to pull it off, odds are their army is going to be over all lack luster. I already gave a big list of counters to the 2++ reroll swarm tactic, and I didn't even touch upon Dark Eldar abduction tech, where you simply remove Eldrad from the squad and break him solo. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if a Battle Wagon brimming with Burna Boyz would do horrible things to the squad. Tank shock into Death Rolla, whatever remains is now in a tight formation for 15 flamer templates, commence system overload. I've seen Canadin load something like 512 hits on one of my squads like that before.

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Re: Tau Drones are not characters

Post  Lore Weaver on Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:48 am

Matt, the 2++ re-rollable guy (usually a single model), is always expensive. At the 1500 point level, any kind of "deathstar" with that guy in it is going to be over 1/3rd of your army.

There are very few codex's that can do any kind of deathstar with mobility as well. Now when Tyson played as Tau, he's taking the Oshava unit with a bunch of shield drones with an allied in Farseer and unit of Eldar things. That's a lot of things for a one trick pony. That deathstar can only shoot at // attack one thing a turn.

The Harlistar with Vect in it has been losing a lot of games, why? Because it's not scoring. Look for a way to tie it up, or move it away from objectives, then win the game. That Harlistar isn't exactly going to win any shooting contests. Give it a wide berth and bubblewrap anything you don't want it to hose. (nobody around here has played the harlistar. If anyone wants to borrow my super seksy 2nd ed harli's...)

Any Necron 2+/3++ with a re-roll saves come at a high-cost, and are generally on foot. Outflank and the LoS rolls won't be there for them.

Grey Knight Paladins get a bunch of LoS rolls, but are still instant killed by S8-10

Only real beefy deathstar to worry about would be Nob Bikers, if kitted out right, they get a 4+/5++/5+FNP and can LoS every wound. Low Low cost of 700+ points, and they can't assault on turn one.

Of all the 6th games I've played so far, I've not encountered any true cheese, and *everyone* has dealt with my Ork Nobz unit and various Necron shenanigans.

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Re: Tau Drones are not characters

Post  System Commander on Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:18 am

Do you know what a flame is? You started this whole thing by flaming Mikes post. I did what a moderator is supposed to do, give you direction to steer things back.

Saying somethings beardy without backing it up is a pure flame.

Its like dealing with a kid about to throw a tantrum.. Which ive actually seen you do a few times as well.

So.. Last warning. Smarten and quit picking a fight. Ive got nothing personal against you, im just encouraging good conduct.

Besides a few speedbumps.. I like the new edition. Currently, i think my only gripe is with the big units of multi wound guys made of characters. I think a lot of people woukd be happy if thwy did away with that rule.



Last edited by System Commander on Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:32 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Tau Drones are not characters

Post  dusktiger on Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:31 am

matt. picking a fight with the site owner/moderator is like picking a fight with the prison guard that's standing between you and the guys that wanna make you their butt princess; it never goes in your favor, and you always end up walking away with a limp and a dull ache that wont go away.

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Re: Tau Drones are not characters

Post  Guest on Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:57 pm

Oh, My, God!

I just realized something!

I have been playing Eldar Attached to maugen Ra, 2+ save eternal warrior. And he soaks like 100 wounds, and kills like everything cuz hes Maugen Ra.... And Ive been doping this for years,,,, I feel kinda bad.... bad enough to buy 5 more warlocks and complete the seer council... then ally with Grey Knights and add in a Vindicaire

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Re: Tau Drones are not characters

Post  Deadlytoaster on Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:30 pm

Alright! Enough! Tau Drones are essentially wargear and no where are they stated as IC's.

My question is however (dont have the BRB on hand) when a tau character that has taken drones as part of his wargear and accepts a challenge do the drones fight too? (assuming they are still alive) or like Ragnar Blackmanes wolves he can take as part of his wargear? They are not retinues? :S

Also lets clear things up about Eldar and psychic powers. All the eldar psychic powers only affect Eldar units (not dark eldar, corsairs, etc).

However if a Eldar unit has say, guide, cast upon it and has a character that is not eldar and a battle brother (so tau or dark eldar) then it also affects the character while he is joined to the squad.

Next the powers in the BRB to the best of my memory say "allies" as targets so if a farseer swaps out his powers for prescience then that can affect an allied only unit.

And as for you mr maugan ra guy, lets see how tough you are standing in front of your unit when my squad of 10 fire dragons in their wave serpent rolls up and says ``hello``. (Pheonix lords are pheonix lords and even with the nerf to power weps i still dont think they are as cost effective, as a farseer, autarch or even an avatar depending on your list)

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Re: Tau Drones are not characters

Post  Guest on Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:25 pm

Deadlytoaster wrote:
And as for you mr maugan ra guy, lets see how tough you are standing in front of your unit when my squad of 10 fire dragons in their wave serpent rolls up and says ``hello``. (Pheonix lords are pheonix lords and even with the nerf to power weps i still dont think they are as cost effective, as a farseer, autarch or even an avatar depending on your list)

Ow, that would hurt.... Not much can take that much Melta.

As for Drones, they are like familiars (Codex: Daemon Hunters, not CSM). They are sort of war gear. They have stat-lines, not just abilities.

Part of their stat line (toughness, armor save, and unit type [essentially for movement purposes]) are taken from the parent drone controller. If one views Tau Commanders as having jetpack and character as their unit type, then one might construe that the drone inherit both those unit types. But it seems that we agree locally that character is not a unit type, but a special rule (like Indipendant Character is a special rule)

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Re: Tau Drones are not characters

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