allies shenanigans!

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allies shenanigans!

Post  Rhaevyn on Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:28 pm

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/07/nurgle-daemon-and-allied-orks.html

The Nefarious List

Daemons
Epidemius 110
Herald of Nurgle, Aura of Decay 85

15x Plaguebearers, Chaos Icon 250
15x Plaguebearers, Chaos Icon 250
10x Plaguebearers 150
10x Plaguebearers 150
7x Plaguebearers 105
6x Plaguebearers 90

12x Screamers 192
12x Screamers 192
12x Screamers 192

Ork Allies
Big Mek - bosspole 40
30x Grots - 4x Runtherd 120

Aegis Defence line - Comms relay 70

The total comes to 1996.

Here is how the shenanigans work...

First split your waves as follows:

Epi+Herald of Nurgle+1x15 PB, 2x10 PB, 2x Screamers
1x15 PB, 1x7 PB, 1x6 PB, 1x Screamers

Next deploy your grots around the Aegis defence line for cover saves and hope for the right wave. If you get the wrong one you've still got a rerollable 3+ for Epi next turn.

Proceed as follows when Epi arrives:

1) Deepstrike his squad near the grots.
2) Move the grots into a clump near him and the Herald, try to get them all within 6" of both of them (they should be on the edge of the PB unit).
3) Activate Aura of Decay on both Epi and the Herald, causing S2 hits on every enemy model within 6". Yes, the grots count as enemy models since they are Allies of Convenience.

You will kill approximately 25 grots on average. You now have maximum Tally, so your PBs wound on 2+ in melee, ignore armor saves and have a 3+ FnP against EVERYTHING except S10.

4) Charge forward and profit.

The Screamers are there to break vehicles. You PBs will murder anything else.

Sure fliers are hard to deal with, just camp objectives and roll saves.

You are essentially running 63 TH-SS terminators... (T5 5++ 3+ FNP is just as effective as T4 2+ against torrents.. against high str/low AP the PBs are far better. They wound on 2+ in CC at ap2, but get to strike at I2).

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Re: allies shenanigans!

Post  Rhaevyn on Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:31 pm

its beautiful and ridiculous at the same time.

+1 for sheer gall

-1 for a ... "seriously? really?, seriously?... whatever man, I'm going home."

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Re: allies shenanigans!

Post  Lore Weaver on Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:37 pm

I wonder if that's as easy to setup as it looks.... 3+ FNP is kinda... wow.

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Re: allies shenanigans!

Post  judchic on Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:04 pm

It's not allowed. The ally rules say you can't attack your allies no matter what degree of ally they are. There was a huge discussion about why it didn't work in the comments.

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Re: allies shenanigans!

Post  Roland on Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:14 pm

What are the rulez for Aura of Decay?

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Re: allies shenanigans!

Post  Rhaevyn on Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:23 pm

you re correct

"Allies of Convenience (and Desperate allies) are treated as enemy units that cannot be charged, shot, targeted with psychic powers, or have templates or blast markers placed over them."

since the aura is ranged weapon that needs to be shot, you cant shoot it at your allies.

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Re: allies shenanigans!

Post  Rhaevyn on Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:25 pm

Aura of decay is a ranged weapon, but the Daemon may be in close combat at the time it uses it, as may be the targets. When used, all enemy models within 6" of the Daemon automatically suffer a Str 2 hit with AP-

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Re: allies shenanigans!

Post  Roland on Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:07 pm

Shoot at the actual enemy. if the grots are within 6" it could still work.

Hypothetically.

Cause at this point, anyone takes PB and G out of their case, the other guy is just gonna pack up.

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Re: allies shenanigans!

Post  Planes on Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:14 pm

The more conversations like this go on, the more I want to field a 6 Wraith Beamer squad. Saves don't mean squad against exile.

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Re: allies shenanigans!

Post  Lore Weaver on Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:24 pm

Planes wrote:The more conversations like this go on, the more I want to field a 6 Wraith Beamer squad. Saves don't mean squad against exile.

They're still not good though Tom. Even with a Phaeron Lord. If you could load them into a Night Scythe maybe, but it's actually impossible to embark on a Night Scythe...

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Re: allies shenanigans!

Post  Planes on Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:44 pm

How is it impossible? Page 51 of the Necron Codex lists the rules for getting on and off of a Night Scythe. If you end your move within 2" of it's flier base you can get on. It also explicitly states that Jump Infantry may board it.

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Re: allies shenanigans!

Post  dusktiger on Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:29 pm

I'm not sure why this guy thought you could do this trick anyways. Must be reading the descriptions of allies and getting the wrong impression; an 'enemy unit' as defined by GW is a unit your "opponent" controls. You wouldn't kill the grots. They're not an "enemy" unit. They're an ally who'd normally be an enemy but in that game is an ally. Plus none of your shooting, psyker, or melee abilities are allowed to affect them. Unless its a blast you scattered poorly with.

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Re: allies shenanigans!

Post  Roland on Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:42 pm

They can't the way its described in the article.

Provided Epi has a valid target and the grots are within 6" it WILL affect them.

BRB:
Units in your army treat Allies of Convenience as enemy
units that cannot be charged, shot, targeted with psychic
powers or have templates or blast markers placed over them.
However, if a psychic power, scattering Blast weapon or other
ability that affects an area hits some of these Allies of Convenience,
they will be affected along with any friendly or enemy units. This
means that, for example, Allies of Convenience units:.... (blah, blah, blah).

You can't target them directly, if they happen to get in the way, they die.

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Re: allies shenanigans!

Post  Rhaevyn on Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:48 pm

could you use Guard and a barrage weapon? just drop some templates close by and hope for a good scatter?

I'm thinking epidemus is going to be a popular ally option for CSM come the new codex. you can put marks on a lot of different models in the new book. a nurgle marked havoc squad /w plasman cannons (crosses fingers) or infiltrating chosen rapid firing plasma guns could probably get the tally up fairly quickly. Nurgle marked Vidicators... splat.

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Re: allies shenanigans!

Post  Lore Weaver on Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:51 pm

You can't embark on a zooming flyer, and Nightscythe's always zoom.

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Re: allies shenanigans!

Post  Planes on Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:58 pm

Huh, I guess the Invasion beams addition to the Necron FAQ didn't make mention of getting back on.

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Re: allies shenanigans!

Post  gluvzer on Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:24 pm

Rhaevyn wrote:could you use Guard and a barrage weapon? just drop some templates close by and hope for a good scatter?

I'm thinking epidemus is going to be a popular ally option for CSM come the new codex. you can put marks on a lot of different models in the new book. a nurgle marked havoc squad /w plasman cannons (crosses fingers) or infiltrating chosen rapid firing plasma guns could probably get the tally up fairly quickly. Nurgle marked Vidicators... splat.

Template hast to have the center "dot" over some portion of the base of the model or vehicle Targeted. You can't just pick a spot on the table.

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Re: allies shenanigans!

Post  miv305 on Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:54 pm

Legal or not the list isn't all that. If your opponent gets first turn he just shoots literally everything at the grots...most 2000 pt 6th edition tourney lists are going to be able to kill a bunch of T3 guys in cover per turn.

Besides that it's just a bunch of slow and purposeful melee guys + one of the weakest units in the codex (Screamers)...terrifying!

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Re: allies shenanigans!

Post  Roland on Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:20 pm

I don't think anyone is arguing its a great/awesome/OMG list, more like, "Can you do that?"

Also, this is hitting on what everyone is saying with allies. "OMGZ, the skies is fallin! Its so broken!!" when, upon closer inspection, it doesn't work at all the way everyone initially assumed.


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Re: allies shenanigans!

Post  System Commander on Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:08 pm

Its a goofy kist... BUT.. if the tally goes to 25 on the first action of the game.. Then its terrifying.

You can kill Epi afterwards though.. Then bleh.

Im sure someone .. Somewhere will try it out and report it to the nets

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Re: allies shenanigans!

Post  Planes on Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:30 pm

If anyone has the models to field this, I would actually love to fight it with my 'Crons. Only seen one person field Grots in Saskatoon, though.

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Re: allies shenanigans!

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