Suggestion for my Guard List.....

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Suggestion for my Guard List.....

Post  Guardian Angel on Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:02 pm

Hey all....I am trying to pull together a guard list that I can play with and be reasonably effective/successful. Basically, I am looking for suggestions. Here is the list.....

HQ

Heroic Senior Officer Command Squad 75 (Iron Discipline)
Laspistol, Power Weapon, Carapace Armour, Bionics 15
Master Vox Caster 20
2 Veteran, Grenade launcher, Medic, Standard, 1 Regular Guard 30

Fire Support Squad 3 Autocannon 105 (Sharpshooter)
Fire Support Squad 3 Autocannon 105 (Sharpshooter)

Total 350

Troops

Junior Officer Platoon A Vox Caster, Melta-Gun 65 (Sharpshooter)
Power Weapon on Serg 5
Squad A1 9 Guard, 1 Serg, Vox, Grenade Laun., Lascannon 108 (Sharpshooter)
Squad A2 9 Guard, 1 Serg, Vox, Grenade Laun., Missle 98 (Sharpshooter)

Armoured Fist Squad 70 (Sharpshooter)
Vox, Grenade Launcher, Missle 28
Chimera 70
Turret Multi-Laser, Hull Hvy Bolter, Hvy Snubber 27

Total 471

Fast Attack

Total 0


Elite

Kasrkin Squad with Cameloeline & Inflitrate 10
1 Veteran Serg & 7 Storm Trooper with Inflitrate 116
1 Plasma Gun, 1 Melta-Gun 20
Power Sword on Serg 5

8 Ratlings with Cameloeline 98

Kasrkin Squad with Cameloeline & Inflitrate 10
1 Veteran Serg & 7 Storm Trooper with Inflitrate 116
1 Plasma Gun, 1 Melta-Gun 20
Power Sword on Serg 5

Total 400

Heavy Support

Lemun Russ with Lascannon, Hvy Bolter, and Hvy Snubber 177
Searchlight 1
Lemun Russ with Lascannon, Hvy Bolter, and Storm Bolter 175
Searchlight 1
Basalisk with Indirect Fire Mod 125

Total 479

Total Points Spent 1700
Point Remaining from 1700 0

Is there anything in this list that I should be ditchin' outright? Should I move the Melta Guns and Plasma Guns together in the Kasrkin Squads? I am thinking about dumping the Armoured Fist for another platoon but I am not sure where to go to the points to build the platoon. Another platoon would cost 276 point and the Armoured Fist would give back 195....where do I pick up the 81 points I need?

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Re: Suggestion for my Guard List.....

Post  Administratum on Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:10 am

Well im no guard player, but ill toss out a few thoughts.

Heroic Senior Officer Command Squad 75 (Iron Discipline)
Laspistol, Power Weapon, Carapace Armour, Bionics 15
Master Vox Caster 20
2 Veteran, Grenade launcher, Medic, Standard, 1 Regular Guard 30

I would think here that the carapace armor and bionics are kind of a waste of points. If the whole squad has carapace then that is different, but just putting it on the officer dosent really increase his survivability very much. The bionics sound cool, but the majority of the time, if someone has managed to single out the officer, then there is a good chance you are not going to be able to use bionics against whatever he is wounding with (ie. power weapon, fist, or any gun that has a strength that is double his toughness)
I dont know what a medic or standard do... i suspect that they are not worth their points. If you have a master vox on the squad i would just make it minimal, and hide it. Not the most heroic behavior, but then guard are known to be a little yella



Fire Support Squad 3 Autocannon 105 (Sharpshooter)
Fire Support Squad 3 Autocannon 105 (Sharpshooter)

I like autocannons. However i would consider making at least one squad of lascannons for popping those annoying land raiders, or other high armor targets.



Junior Officer Platoon A Vox Caster, Melta-Gun 65 (Sharpshooter)
Power Weapon on Serg 5
Squad A1 9 Guard, 1 Serg, Vox, Grenade Laun., Lascannon 108 (Sharpshooter)
Squad A2 9 Guard, 1 Serg, Vox, Grenade Laun., Missle 98 (Sharpshooter)

Looks good, only i would trade in the missile launcher for another las cannon. Im not sure about guard, but i think las/plas is often the best configuration.

Armoured Fist Squad 70 (Sharpshooter)
Vox, Grenade Launcher, Missle 28
Chimera 70
Turret Multi-Laser, Hull Hvy Bolter, Hvy Snubber 27

Looks good, chimeras can lay down a ton of fire. I would get rid of the missile launcher and maybe go with a heavy bolter or autocannon. One of Robyn's favorite tactics is to keep the squad inside and shoot a heavy bolter out the hatch. The heavy bolter works well because it pairs nicely with the chimera weapons. The multilaser and heavy bolter are both 36" range, and are both excellent at killing light infantry. The missile launcher is a bad fit in my opinion.

Kasrkin Squad with Cameloeline & Inflitrate 10
1 Veteran Serg & 7 Storm Trooper with Inflitrate 116
1 Plasma Gun, 1 Melta-Gun 20
Power Sword on Serg 5

Kasrkin Squad with Cameloeline & Inflitrate 10
1 Veteran Serg & 7 Storm Trooper with Inflitrate 116
1 Plasma Gun, 1 Melta-Gun 20
Power Sword on Serg 5

Not sure i like these guys. They are kinda pricey. I think there is little need for infiltrators in a guard army. You should be putting as much fire power on the table as possible. If you infiltrate these boys i think they will loose against almost anything they run into. I dont want to go on a rant here, but i hate the infiltrate skill. If you use it to get close to the enemy then you are isolated from your backup. Guard dont want to get closer, or be isolated. I build lists for tournament play, and in a tournament you are lucky if there is more than one game that will allow infiltrators. The only way i could see it being useful is if you needed to take table quarters. Then plopping a unit down in the middle of nowhere and just hiding them to keep the quarter would be a viable tactic. However if that was the plan i would take a 5 man squad with no options. If it was a shooty unit infiltrate would be useful... If you really want to keep these guys then give one squad 2 melta and the other 2 plasma. That way they both have defined battlefield roles.





8 Ratlings with Cameloeline 98

Fantastic. They are shooty and hard to kill. I love ratlings. So cheap, and man they excel at killing those hig scary things that are designed to make a mess of guard lines. Wraithlords, mostrous creatures, all fair game. These guys also infiltrate i think, but it is really useful in this case. Once your opponent sets up his wraithlord for example, you can place these guys last in a concealed position where they can have LoS to it.

Lemun Russ with Lascannon, Hvy Bolter, and Hvy Snubber 177
Searchlight 1
Lemun Russ with Lascannon, Hvy Bolter, and Storm Bolter 175
Searchlight 1
Basalisk with Indirect Fire Mod 125

I know you probably already have the models, but mixint the heavy bolters with the lascannons on the russes is a shame. I would either go with 3 heavy bolters for killing light infantry, or a single lascannon with no sponsoons for killing armor. Stash once did a statistical breakdown on the russ. He determined that if you were shooting at another vehicle with armor 12(or 13?) it would be better to use the lascannon than the cannon. I think they would be fine without the stubbers.


Well i was as hard on the list as i could be. I am by no means an expert, nor the best player in the club, but i think there were some valid points in there.. As for ways to improve the list, just get more guns into it. Definately some lascannon teams. Alot of people swear by the all infantry guard list. If you are worried about things getting to your lines, you could consider commisars or preachers. I cant speak to their effectiveness, but i think stash uses em. A hellhoud would also be a good addition. Very nice tanhk.

Sorry for the length, hope it helps a bit.

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Re: Suggestion for my Guard List.....

Post  gluvzer on Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:50 am

I've been playing guard for nearly ten years know, if you want to take that into consideration for my thoughts. Cam is right about the senior officer don't bother with the armour or bionics, a 5pt power sword is a hell of a deal, or you can go with a power fist to beat on anything but other characters and monsterous creatures. I'm not a fan at all of grenade launchers, I would rather go with plasma guns for the AP2 value which guard need. I don't think you are allowed to take special gear for ratlings or any abhumans, check the codex further on that. For Russ' I recomend taking hull HB's and HB side sponsons. It's only 15 more points and if you lose the main gun it is still an infantry killing machine. The infantry Lascannons should be shooting at tanks unless there is more pressing concerns. I also recomend taking sentinals if you can as well. Maybe drop one of the kasarkin squads for some, they are well worth their points. If you have any questions about anything ask away.

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Re: Suggestion for my Guard List.....

Post  Guardian Angel on Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:18 pm

Thnx guys.....I have swapped out a bunch of stuff.

I ditched the Melta Gun on Junior Squad for Hvy Bolter

I tossed one Karskin Squad and upped the Ratlings to 10 and added 2 Sentinels (would have gone Hellhound if I had one rather then Sentinels)

I ditched the Carapace, Bionics and Grenade Laucher on Heroic Senior.

I traded the Chimera Squad for another platoon of Junior with Hvy Bolter and 2 squads with Autocannons.

Traded out one Grenade Launcher for a Plasma Gun (only have 1 guy with Plasma) and remaining Kasrkin has 2 plasmas.

Changed 3 Autocannons for 3 Lascannon.

I will see how this works out on Thursday again Darren.....

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Re: Suggestion for my Guard List.....

Post  Administratum on Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:49 pm

Sounds like a pretty solid fire base. Just remember your target priority. Shoot anything that can get into close combat with you first, put everything you have into it. Leave the slow moving stuff for after. If he plays eldar you might want to consider just shooting the grav tanks until you get a cant move or shoot result. Once you have this move on to other targets, and then shoot the skimmer again next turn when it dosent get its glancing hits for moving fast. If you can avoid it try not to shoot tanks with ordanace. Pop em open with las cannons, then when the squishy guys jump out drop the template on them. Just a few things that i have seen other guard players do.

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My two cents..

Post  System Commander on Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:15 am

I think I've already given you my two cents about the guard after our game, but I'll add a few comments to the mix.

With your heroics sen. officer working on his own (as in no commisar/priest buddies) you probably just want to make sure he is worth little to no points, and only there for leadership. 5 points for a power weapon is awesome, so for sure take that but otherwise do not ever expect him to kill anything, that's the best way to deal with it. And if he does, well thats just a bonus. When I first started, I used to kit him out all fancy, but then he'd die to one lonely little space marine wandering around, that was always awesome. So, if you choose to use him as a leadership base, I would definitely reinforce the need for a standard bearer and with iron discipline, you might as well max out with the vox casters. My command squad consists of a flamer, melta, standard bearer, vet with 2 ccw and the Her. Sen. Off with plasma gun and power weapon and usually toss them into a Chimera to keep them mobile. I also use conscripts though so need to keep the command moving up with them for the abilities.

With your doctrine make-up and the way you'll be using your leadership, I would recoomend taking the honofica imperialis for your jun. off and outfit him the same way as your Her. sen. At least this way you have a leadership back-up in case your main commander falls. As for other HQ choices, if thepoints are around Ill toss in a commissar for each commander with power weapons. However, they suck just as bad as the commander at killing anything with 4 or higher, and really should have powerfists.

I think the autocannon squads are good. I love the stormtroopers even though I dont use them often. If you like remaining versatile, plasma/melta at least gives you options. You could also think about buying ilfiltrate for one grouyp with plasma guns, and deep strike for the other with melta guns for tnak hunting or coming down on an objective or something later in the game.

My favorite make-up of weapons is missile/grenade and las/plas. I'll fill out command squads with a melta and a flamer to keep them assault based and give them some options.

The heavy support looks good. I moved away from using the las heavy bolters on the last leman I built, so at least they have their assigned duties. If they are already modelled though, it's not a big deal. The battlecannon will be the first to go, so if you still like having anti-tank abilities keep the make-up, it will be useful at some point for sure.

Ratlings are awesome, but I dont beleive you can buy them any special equipment. I'm just going off of ryan's comments, I'll have to check your list again to see if you gave them sharpshooters or cameleoline, but double check the rules text to see which units can take it.

Like Ryan, I love sentinels with standard multilaser. A squad of three can lay down some good anti-infantry power and are not bad agianst transports.

For my list, I take the following doctines. Ratlings, Special weapon squads, Drop Troopers, Iron Discipline, & Close Combat Drill. I field a command squad, sen. her. off with plasma pistol and power weapon, with standard bearer (vet), flamer, melta, and vet with 2 ccw and commisar with power weapon. I then take 2 special weapon squads with melta gun, demo charge and vet sarge with bolt pistol to deep strike in and a sentinel to deep strike as well. I'll fill out the HQ with a hvy squad of lascannons. I take two platoons. One command with jun off with power weapon, honofica imp., and plasma pistol. He gets a flamer, melta, and 2 vets with ccw. Ill take two sqauds of troopers with missile/grenade and a 6 man remnant squad with a melta for deep striking. The second platoon has a jun off. with plasma pistol/power weapon, flamer, heavy bolter, and a chimera. The platoon has autocannons/plasma guns with a 6 man remnant squad. Ive modelled the platoon to deep strike in case I see the need to drop the squads into some cover or behind lines, etc. I have 10 ratlings for big gribblies and a hellhound for fun. I take a demolisher with multi-melta sponsons and a regular leman with hvy bolter sponsons all around. And lastly, a platoon of 20 concripts with 2 flamers.

Now, that's my list and it doesn't win often... hehe. That probably has alot to do with I dont play guard that well to begin with, and there are some errors with my standard army I've never fixed. That being said, the army is very very fun, which is probably the most important thing. Deep striking cheap units all over the board means you dont really care if they live or not, but having those 6 man squads hunkering down claiming table quarters is a royal pain in the ass. Especially if they get to kill something in the process.

So, just my two cents. Ryan has always had great success with the guard, especially tactically and can probably give you better advice than me on that front of things. The biggest thing though is playing lots of games and deciding what you like. The guard is so insanely unique that you should be able to adapt it to your playstyle once you know what it is.

All this guard talk has me wanting to bring mine out. Maybe I should do that against Trev, although that would give him an easy win... hmmmmmmmm.

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