Dreadnaughts = Bad?

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Re: Dreadnaughts = Bad?

Post  Dom.0 on Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:24 pm

well with sentanals only haveing 2 hp ill probaly feild dreads in place of them. say waht dead wepon agenment do riflemen deads have.

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Re: Dreadnaughts = Bad?

Post  Rhaevyn on Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:27 pm

Learn the allies rules first please Dom.

You can only field one elites choice with allies, and your going to need a Marine HQ and a unit of troops before you can field that one Dreadnought.

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Re: Dreadnaughts = Bad?

Post  Dom.0 on Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:30 pm

not a problem beside i tend to only feildn one sental most games............wait derds are elites i tought they where heavy suport.

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Re: Dreadnaughts = Bad?

Post  Planes on Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:46 pm

Dreads usually pop up as elites, but some Codices also have variants available in other slots such as heavy support. I think the Blood Angels do some other crazy things with them, like give them jump packs, or shove librarians into them.

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Re: Dreadnaughts = Bad?

Post  Guest on Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:47 am

I am wondering on a few things in this ed.

The first one, is how good will flying monstrous creatures be. I wanna playtest running 3 or 4 (either 2 Princes n Blood Thirster, or 2 CSM Prince, Thirsty, and Daemon's DP) They can go swooping turn 1 then land and start issuing challenges. Still have to playtest it.

Another thing about power weapons,,, the burna. Could it be a Polearm/Axe? therefore +1 STR ap2 for only -1 init, or are they unusual? My gut says unusual, but my hope says axe.

One silly thing I have seen people saying about burnas though, is that their rule states that if they shoot in the shooting phase, they are not PW in assault, therefore if you overwatch in teh assault phase, it didn't count and you are still PW. This does not seem right to me though.

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Re: Dreadnaughts = Bad?

Post  gluvzer on Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:04 pm

Flying monstorous creatures are really good. 4 is lots and will/would be hard for opponents to deal with.

Does a burna even look like an axe or spear Rolling Eyes c'mon now follow your guts please.

Read the rules for burna's, I'm sure you'll find your answer there or at least quote the rules here for our interpretation. Do you have the codex?

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Re: Dreadnaughts = Bad?

Post  Guest on Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:39 pm

Yeah, its a bit of a stretch to call a burna a pole-arm... It rather fits the defnition of weird power weapons.

As for "da rulz" it specifies that if used in the shooting phase, a burna will not count as PW in assault. Overwatch would therefore not turn off PW mode according to the english of the matter, as it occurs in the assault phase rather than the shooting phase. The issue is not addressed in the FAQ.

I think this is comparable to that Necron character (whose name I can't recall) and the fly-by attack on the command barge. Specifically, how his weapon destroys all like models when causing a wound in assault, but it did not work with fly-by attack (or sweep attack I think its called) because that was the movement phase.

One other thing that comes to my mind, is this: Are Swooping Monstrous Creatures now master assassins?

If a Daemon Prince with something like bolt of change, pyromancy, or telepathy, flies over a unit with its 24" move, it can stop itself 1" away from exactly the model it wants to shoot down. Assuming "Deny the witch" isnt too useful (or actually in the case of a Changer of Ways, these are just regular shooting attacks [wind of chaos and bolt of change], so no denying it). What do you all think of that?

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Re: Dreadnaughts = Bad?

Post  gluvzer on Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:51 pm

I'd have to read my BRB on overwatch to get an opinion.

For further clarification on Power weapons:

Since the weapon does in fact have further special rules you do not look to see what the model has. They are ap3 initiative weapons. Not axes, not mauls not lances.

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Re: Dreadnaughts = Bad?

Post  Roland on Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:13 pm

As a further note, Power axes are not Str +1, AP2, -1 Init. They are Str +1, AP2, Unweildy (aka Init 1, like a powerfist)

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Re: Dreadnaughts = Bad?

Post  Guest on Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:06 pm

Roland wrote:As a further note, Power axes are not Str +1, AP2, -1 Init. They are Str +1, AP2, Unweildy (aka Init 1, like a powerfist)

Yes I know, but Orks are I2, and furious charge no longer grants +1 I, so unweildy is now only -1 init to orkz

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Re: Dreadnaughts = Bad?

Post  System Commander on Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:19 pm

Burnas will only ap3 ... I dont think overwatch would trigger the power weapon..

There are going to be lots of goofy little targeting tings again..since.. The old rule of if only one guy is in los.. He has to take the wound.. Oh.. What a pain in the ass that was.

I personally think monstrous flyers will be good.. Taking 4 will gurantee no one will play you.

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Re: Dreadnaughts = Bad?

Post  Guest on Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:07 pm

well 2 is pretty standard for chaos, but I rly wanna put down a Bloodthirster.

Maybe I could cut 1 DP and 'replace' with allied bloodthirster.

Kharn is also a favourite, but I dont know if I would like him at init 1....

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Re: Dreadnaughts = Bad?

Post  Lore Weaver on Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:19 pm

Under 2k, can't you field only 3 mc's? 2 from one list + 1 from allies?

I'll play against that list. No phear.

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Re: Dreadnaughts = Bad?

Post  Planes on Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:46 pm

Chaos Space Marines can do 3, and then another from allies, you just need to be willing to have a champion or sorcerer to explode into a Greater Daemon.

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Re: Dreadnaughts = Bad?

Post  System Commander on Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:21 am

You can take 2 flying monstrous from HQ for Chaos.. Bloodthister as allied HQ.. then the Daemon princes for Daemons are heavy support. Then for Chaos marines as well you can take a great daemon.. not flying. But.. and I noticed this today.. in the back of the BRB.. there is no entry for lesser or greater daemon.. I dont know why.. .. ?

Missed this earlier but Grey Knight Dread are Heavy, Venerable ones are elites.

Kharne is sort of hit and miss now.. I tended to still throw him in a land raider with a squad of bersekrers.. and either break off if needed or risk the ones.. now though.. those berserkers will still get to attack before dying.. benefit? A small one.. I still think having the init was better though.. Smile

I am liking the Chaos lord on bike again though.. with tgh 5.. and possibly a power axe or fist with pistol.. since I also just realized that the power axe will give you an extra +1 attack. .. for some reason my brain wasnt seeing that before.





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Re: Dreadnaughts = Bad?

Post  Rhaevyn on Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:25 am

Lore Weaver wrote:Under 2k, can't you field only 3 mc's? 2 from one list + 1 from allies?

I'll play against that list. No phear.

CSM: 2DP 1 Greater daemon
Daemons: 1Greater Daemon (or two heralds, which can be beefy) and 1 DP from Heavys.

so max 5 @ 1999. only 4 potential flyers, the Daemons codex ones are more expensive and i'm not a big fan. Daemonic flight is very expensive.

i did just notice that heralds on chariots are no longer Independent characters once mounted, which means no challenges in combat? same with other MC's? so a DP joins a fight in support of a unit of plagumarines, only challenge possible is the plague champ if he exists. Flying MC Assassins seems to be the way to go. land on the far side of a unit from characters and pwn the rank and file/weapon holders.

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Re: Dreadnaughts = Bad?

Post  Planes on Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:38 am

You don't need to be independent to issue a challenge, you simply need to be a character. As I don't have that codex on hand, do they retain character status?

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Re: Dreadnaughts = Bad?

Post  Rhaevyn on Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:47 am

no. the rules for the different chariots say that they "exchange the independant character rule for Furious Charge"

this was supposed to be a penalty as now they couldn't join or hide in units due toe BF chariot they were in.

they are not listed as "characters" anywhere. but "characters" only really exist in the necron and now the updated itunes marine codex.

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Re: Dreadnaughts = Bad?

Post  System Commander on Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:09 pm

The characters are all listed at the back of the rule book in the appendices.

Dp are ll charavters.. As are all the heralds. They take the time to list the heralds on the various differently to sjow ifthey necome cavalry or stay infantry.. But they dont do the same to chariots.. I dont know why.

And like i mentioned above.. They dont even list lesser or greater daemons in the appendices.. So we have no idea if the greater daemon is a character..


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Re: Dreadnaughts = Bad?

Post  Roland on Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:10 pm

independant character= can join and leave a unit. Operates as a seperate unit in CC

character= for purposes of issueing accepting challenges, precision strikes, etc.

indepentant char =/= character

2 completely different things Mike, as far as I know you can never "lose" character status.

SC: wait a month:) Your shiny new dex should be out then....

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Re: Dreadnaughts = Bad?

Post  Roland on Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:16 pm

SC: Possibly a ref issue? "Terminators" aren't listed under Grey Knights, and all the MEQ codexes seem to indicate you refer to C:SM. Maybe they want you to refer to the the appropriate Greater/Lesser Daemon? Seems pretty clear a Greater Daemon is a character, and a Lesser is not.

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