Possible February Highlander Event

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Re: Possible February Highlander Event

Post  Lord_Commander_Stash on Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:08 pm

Termagant wrote:my computer IS fooked. i type something and it comes up on the screen 30 seconds or mOre later. Caps are screwed.

it means your computer ram is tied up with programs taking up lots of memory or viruses.

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Re: Possible February Highlander Event

Post  System Commander on Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:43 pm

Im going to be in montreal that weekend.. no tourney for me! Should be fun though. in truth though.. it would of been the exact same chaos or grey knight list I usually.. But would if been great fun nontheless.

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Re: Possible February Highlander Event

Post  Roland on Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:19 pm

Actually, I kinda like stash's idea for the troops, it's rather elegant.

Sorry to hear that Rob, we gotta get you in a singles tourney sometime. Good luck with the flight.

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Re: Possible February Highlander Event

Post  Lord_Commander_Stash on Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:42 pm

The one problem with the troop limitation is that no one will have a unit of every troop type. (I dont have penal legionaires). However my idea is also made with the idea of kroot in mind...Everyone takes masses of fire warriors and never any kroot...for those Tau players out there I have no sympathy...

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Re: Possible February Highlander Event

Post  Roland on Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:05 pm

Yes, I can see Guard or Chaos having an issue. Even BA have 5 before they can take a second. I still like it.

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Re: Possible February Highlander Event

Post  ShenkyeiRambo on Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:02 am

So when's this thing actually happening? I would like to know when, what time, points limit and what i can/ can't duplicate.

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Re: Possible February Highlander Event

Post  Timbo on Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:53 am

The only limit on troops is that you can't take 3 or more of something. That should not be a problem for anyone James. I don't think any guard players will be miffed that they can't field that third infantry platoon. New guy, the tournament will be February 12. The rules are on the first page of this thread. Basically you cannot duplicate any codex entry in your army list, with the exception of units in the troops section which can be duplicated once. 1600 points, standard sort of missions. One killy one, 2 objective-y ones.

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Re: Possible February Highlander Event

Post  Timbo on Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:59 am

James, you are correct in pointing out that some IG lists wouldn't change very much. However, it does limit them to only 1 psyker battle squad, 2 units of vets, 1 manticore, and a single squadron of vendettas. These are units that competitive IG lists will spam. The book still has a lot to offer in some of the other choices, so let's see them in action!

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Re: Possible February Highlander Event

Post  Lore Weaver on Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:14 pm

Hey Tim,

Small suggestion, I think you should kickoff a new thread that details the event, so people surfing know that it's February 12th, the start time, the format, cost, max number of players, prizes, etc...

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Re: Possible February Highlander Event

Post  Lord_Commander_Stash on Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:45 pm

Timbo wrote:James, you are correct in pointing out that some IG lists wouldn't change very much. However, it does limit them to only 1 psyker battle squad, 2 units of vets, 1 manticore, and a single squadron of vendettas. These are units that competitive IG lists will spam. The book still has a lot to offer in some of the other choices, so let's see them in action!

My point on troops was the 2 vet squads was already alot. I meant limit each troop choice to 1 until all are taken:
1 platoon
1 vet
1 penal legion
THEN duplicate.

I find it interesting people would spam manticores...they are only ap4...there are lots and lots of infantry killing options leaving just the 3+ and 2+ saves you have to worry about and take the options that can deal with them.

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Re: Possible February Highlander Event

Post  gluvzer on Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:31 pm

Lord_Commander_Stash wrote:I find it interesting people would spam manticores...they are only ap4...there are lots and lots of infantry killing options leaving just the 3+ and 2+ saves you have to worry about and take the options that can deal with them.

It's the sheer amount of wounds they would cause. AND the ability to alpha the shit out of mech spam.

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Re: Possible February Highlander Event

Post  Lore Weaver on Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:46 pm

gluvzer wrote:
Lord_Commander_Stash wrote:I find it interesting people would spam manticores...they are only ap4...there are lots and lots of infantry killing options leaving just the 3+ and 2+ saves you have to worry about and take the options that can deal with them.

It's the sheer amount of wounds they would cause. AND the ability to alpha the shit out of mech spam.

Rhino's and Razorbacks aren't big fans of massed S7 Shooting.

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Re: Possible February Highlander Event

Post  Timbo on Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:53 pm

They shoot d3 str 10 LARGE BLAST templates. That's insane. Who cares about the AP?

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Re: Possible February Highlander Event

Post  Lore Weaver on Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:55 pm

I got confused, I thought they had autocannons...

please disregard my n00b-ness and carry on!

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Re: Possible February Highlander Event

Post  Timbo on Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:16 pm

I was mocking James, not you Mark;) Although your comment about the str7 confused me. I did set up a new thread with all of the tourney info. Any specific questions about lists and rules can be taken there.

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Re: Possible February Highlander Event

Post  Lord_Commander_Stash on Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:11 pm

Sher number of wounds? They wont do much beyond what a 1 shot ordinance barrage would most of the time since
1) you have to roll over 1 on a D3
2)hit on or somewhat on target with your first shot
3) get a hit with your next shot(s)

A basilisk will do more to a squad of marines than a manticore will (unless the manticore gets 3 direct hits).

Just have to blow off the manticore launcher or shake it to silence it...I would almost go for a death strike over a manticore for the same points....for full Str 10 on vehicles and no cover saves; D3+3" blast radius so a 8-12" diameter (essentially an apocalypse blast marker or bigger) also humourusly the death strike only has a 12" minimum range...just enough so it doesnt blow itself up Razz

I vote for valkyries with multiple rocket pods for taking on light infantry, these do much more too and are 30 points less. Also bane wolves with heavy flammer for 30 points less. Hell A standard Russ with 3 heavy bolters for 10 points more. Each tank except maybe for the Russ has more uses on the battle field over and above the manticore.

A leman Russ demolisher I would prefer for dealing with mech, or anything by that matter. 220pts for las cannon and plasma cannons. Factor out its armour its 190 factor out the last cannon its 175 so basically it pays 15 points over a manticore for a guarantee of 3 templates all at AP2. Sure the plasma cannons are str 7 but that is the same as str 10 against all but maybe 1 or 2 infantry units in the game and will hit a enemy tank much easier than scattering second or third shots in a barrage (which will only hit 1/3 of the time IF the first one lands on target).

To be honest I would take 1 or 2 colossuses if I had the models since taking out things in cover is probably way more important let alone taking out marines and cleaning off objective which are almost always cover or near cover.

In short there are TONS of options to deal with non marine infantry. Pretty much everything in the book deals with light infantry. The things you need to worry about are marines and 2+ saves. This is why the plasma gun trumps all other assault weapons because it is ap2...if it were str 5 or even 4 and ap 2 it would still trump the other weapons. You will get 3-4 shots with a plasma gun to each shot a melta gun would get off at advancing infantry (2-3 turns of shooting one of which rapid firing).

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Re: Possible February Highlander Event

Post  Timbo on Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:48 am

In 6th edition when cover gets reduced to a 5+ the Basilisk might become playable. Right now it is useless. Yeah, you heard me. Useless.

The thing about the Manticore is that breaks the 1 vs 1 nature of 40K shooting. You can target the edge of a vehicle and hit multiple units with a single shot. That is incredibly powerful. It forces people to really consider their deployment. Light vehicle parks can get obliterated by these. It is very effective against both infantry (especially multi-wound infantry) and vehicles. Also, it's not open-topped which is just icing on the cake. Sure guard have better units for killing infantry, and better units for killing vehicles, but the Manticore is the best, most flexible all-rounder. I would field 3 of them or 3 deathstrikes. One or the other.

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Re: Possible February Highlander Event

Post  Lord_Commander_Stash on Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:29 pm

Timbo wrote:In 6th edition when cover gets reduced to a 5+ the Basilisk might become playable. Right now it is useless. Yeah, you heard me. Useless.

The thing about the Manticore is that breaks the 1 vs 1 nature of 40K shooting. You can target the edge of a vehicle and hit multiple units with a single shot. That is incredibly powerful. It forces people to really consider their deployment. Light vehicle parks can get obliterated by these. It is very effective against both infantry (especially multi-wound infantry) and vehicles. Also, it's not open-topped which is just icing on the cake. Sure guard have better units for killing infantry, and better units for killing vehicles, but the Manticore is the best, most flexible all-rounder. I would field 3 of them or 3 deathstrikes. One or the other.

If the basilisk is useless because of cover then the manticore is too.

The manticore is good for str10 vs vehicles or hitting side or rear armour at str 5 and killing non marine infantry which isnt a great assets in the imperial guard book since there is soo many things that do that. Therefore I must dissagree with the flexibility of the manticore. Granted I should watch some in action and see how they do.





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Re: Possible February Highlander Event

Post  Roland on Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:57 pm

From my one game vs a Manticore (tourney last year-2000 pts?)

It camped in the back and just pinned me down. He had it screened by a Vendetta or 2 and 2 Russ's, plus some Melta-vet chimeras and some Sisters that turned into a god-awful tarpit. He always seemed to have SOMETHING that demanded my immediate attention, while the Manticore just bombed the hell out of me.

Yes it has to hit something. That's why usually you pick a Rhino or a Raider or the middle of a group of infantry. Unless your scatter is AWFUL, it will at least nick something. Then the other 2 drop and whatever is nearby (like.... I dunno a tactical squad using a rhino to block LOS/provide cover) gets nailed.

Manticore > Basilisk simply due to # of pie plate.

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Re: Possible February Highlander Event

Post  Lord_Commander_Stash on Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:11 pm

Roland wrote:From my one game vs a Manticore (tourney last year-2000 pts?)

It camped in the back and just pinned me down. He had it screened by a Vendetta or 2 and 2 Russ's, plus some Melta-vet chimeras and some Sisters that turned into a god-awful tarpit. He always seemed to have SOMETHING that demanded my immediate attention, while the Manticore just bombed the hell out of me.

Yes it has to hit something. That's why usually you pick a Rhino or a Raider or the middle of a group of infantry. Unless your scatter is AWFUL, it will at least nick something. Then the other 2 drop and whatever is nearby (like.... I dunno a tactical squad using a rhino to block LOS/provide cover) gets nailed.

Manticore > Basilisk simply due to # of pie plate.

Your statement assumes 3 templates dropping. Sure his other template scattered and hit a tactical squad and did what? Kill 1 marine? Over all what DID his manticore kill? Especially with the first template?

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Re: Possible February Highlander Event

Post  Roland on Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:02 pm

If I remember correctly, both Rhinos, 15 marines and a predator over the course of the game. All in all about 500 points worth of stuff. Don't quote me too much on this, it was about a year ago.

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Re: Possible February Highlander Event

Post  Lord_Commander_Stash on Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:03 pm

Roland wrote:If I remember correctly, both Rhinos, 15 marines and a predator over the course of the game. All in all about 500 points worth of stuff. Don't quote me too much on this, it was about a year ago.

sounds really really lucky actually

-1 round kill predator would be a bit lucky since you need a 5+ to kill it on the damage table (assuming 1 or 2 hits an one gets a penetrating hit)

-maybe kill both rhinos in one shot...would need to be pretty lucky to do that so I say 2 rounds of shooting 1 rhino a turn which is still really lucky (again assuming out of 1 or 2 hits you get a pentrating hit)

-3 more rounds of shooting WOUNDING 15 marines each time to kill 15 of them....

**sure some marines may have been caught when the rhinos were shot at, but still you need to inflict 45 wounds with a manticore to kill 15 marines. (Basically he needed to hit 53 marines to kill 15 of them)

Basically he rolled 3 5+s in a row and you failed more saves than you should have.


You need to hit 18 marines with a basilisk to kill 15 marines...I trust this alot more. Sure the manticore can kill vehicles a bit better, but I rarely use the basilisk on vehicles. That's what lascannons are for (which are cheaper and hit more often)

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Re: Possible February Highlander Event

Post  Timbo on Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:14 pm

James the Manticore averages twice as many shots as a Basilisk. Potentially it can fire 3 times as many shots. In addition those shots have +1 str. Are you trying to tell me that because the Basilisk is AP 3 it is a better choice than a Manticore? Because that is absolute nonsense. I know you like to argue for arguing's sake but come on man. There is a reason why nobody other than you has ever fielded a Basilisk since the new book came out. There is a reason why top players field multiple Manticores. No it's not because only you know how to use Basilisks correctly. It is because Basilisks are terrible and Manticores are killing machines.

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Re: Possible February Highlander Event

Post  Lord_Commander_Stash on Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:56 pm

Timbo wrote:James the Manticore averages twice as many shots as a Basilisk. Potentially it can fire 3 times as many shots. In addition those shots have +1 str. Are you trying to tell me that because the Basilisk is AP 3 it is a better choice than a Manticore? Because that is absolute nonsense. I know you like to argue for arguing's sake but come on man. There is a reason why nobody other than you has ever fielded a Basilisk since the new book came out. There is a reason why top players field multiple Manticores. No it's not because only you know how to use Basilisks correctly. It is because Basilisks are terrible and Manticores are killing machines.

What you say is true since I havent played all that much since the new edition. However statistics and use on the field tell a different story, at least they show some hype over the manticore. Also im only using the basilisk since its the next best fit. In reality I would use collosuses because of the ap3 and ignoring enemy cover saves which is HUGE

Mainly my philosophy to IG army building is that" Guns are for tanks and the tanks are for sweeping away infantry. The Manticore switches this aproach up which is ok, but the consequences of the rest of the army build can be serious in a tournament environment (see below).

Ap3 means you need to hit 1/3 less marines than you do with a manticore template. Sure with cover the manticore does way more than the basilisk, but thats why I say I would use the collosus.

I dont deny that the manticore is the king at heavy tank killing, for every other tank 2 las cannons are equivalent and cheaper. It also statistically give you a 66% chance of hitting a vehicle with 1 hit (18% for two) IF you dare have it peek out and draw LOS to its target. 2 lascannons give you a 75% chance of scoring a hit..I would take this for taking out transports over the 66% str 10 especially with the lascannons being cheaper.

For doing sheer number of wounds, flamers can do similar (especially mounted up) for waaaayyy cheaper.

In a tournament setting I see the manticore doing the following:

-Keeping horde armies out of the tournament

-Being the new "cheese" and netting you a loss on sportsmanship and army comp

-losing more army comp due to 'lack of variety' because the rest of your army now has to drop the newly redundant anti light infantry and heavy tank roles and take up arms to deal with marines, terminators and monsterous creatures exclusively (effectively giving you manticores and plasmaguns all over without any other weapons..perhaps even dropping meltas too)

-Loosing you even more sportsmanship for 'creative' template positioning to hit multiple units.

I say this in loosing many tournaments because people considered the basilisk as 'cheese' simply a point lost every game brought me out of contention...so really I like the manticore for drawing that negative attention away from anything I field. Even my guard HtH army I brought to Winnipeg way back when and got 3 wins got HAMMERED cause it took 2 basilisks.

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Re: Possible February Highlander Event

Post  Rhaevyn on Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:41 pm

Your arguing against a vehicle based on perceived power and its affect on your opponents perceived penis size and their resulting nerdrage, resulting in lost tournaments due to comp?

and your argument is that you should use a less "cheesy" tank and hope your opponent gives you high marks for spamming him with three of those instead?

.... and 3 posts up you were arguing that the manticore wasn't as good as the basalisk... and now the manticore is the cheesy army comp killer. Wuzzah?

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Re: Possible February Highlander Event

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