vannilla marines help

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Re: vannilla marines help

Post  Roland on Mon Dec 26, 2011 5:55 pm

if youre feeling adventurous, magnetize them for MM/HF or Typhoon/HB.

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Re: vannilla marines help

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Dec 26, 2011 5:56 pm

Roland wrote:if youre feeling adventurous, magnetize them for MM/HF or Typhoon/HB.

Magnetizing Speeders for the win. It's a lot of work, but gives you a lot of options.

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Re: vannilla marines help

Post  Gain on Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:13 pm

Magnetizing them is not to bad, when you build them put magnets on the inside for the missiles. The pintle weapons were a pain in the ass though little magnets are hard to work with. magnetizing the bases I would say is a must, It makes them so much easier to move and transport.

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Re: vannilla marines help

Post  Selik on Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:15 pm

i have never don any magnaizing myself. I am terrible at custumizing things, the only thing i have done is my represor....

I guess I would have to buy the magnets too. do you guys buy them locally or online?

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Re: vannilla marines help

Post  Timbo on Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:58 pm

Selik wrote:ok,

I ended up at the Den today for some reason (25% off this week).

bought 2 speeders. I just have to figure out how I will arm them, I figure MM and the missle launchers.

That's a bad combo. Heavy bolter/typhoon launchers are good, multi-melta/heavy flamer are great (very flexible, and most of the time you'll only shoot one weapon on a tornado anyhow), and the aforementioned double multi-melta is okay because more melta is always better. Mixing a 24" weapon and a 48" weapon is bad. You want to keep your speeders moving 12" to protect them from assaults so the heavy bolter tornadoes can move 12" and shoot heavy bolters and frag missiles at infantry, or move 12" and shoot krak missiles at vehicles.

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Re: vannilla marines help

Post  Roland on Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:44 pm

Selik:
I had not magnetized anything before I moved here. In the last year I've mag'd 2 predators, and 6 dreads. I would have mag'd my LS, but they are difficult to retrofit, and most had been built before I started doing it. It easy, I'm a klutz w/ tools and I can do it. If you'd like to meet up after new years @ the den I can run you thru a few options for positioning the magnets etc.

I use a few sources. The ones up front at the den are fine for the size. I ordered some specialized sizes from KJ Magnetics for my dreads, and for my Rhino/Razorback/Whirlwinds I'm working on, I'm actually using the cheap-ass craft magnets from wal-mart.


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Re: vannilla marines help

Post  dusktiger on Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:57 pm

and the MM typhoon cant do that as well? you can still do that with them too; i do it that way all the time with my squad and they work fine. its that thinking that gets people to let me get away with killing alot more of their army than they expect. dont listen to him, kevin, it's a fine combo.

if you want an easy tip for making the gunner's weapon choice easily swappable, here's what i do;

  1. glue his gunner arms and heavy bolter together
  2. dry-fit them in place on the torso/gun rail, but DO NOT glue them.
  3. glue the shoulder pads to the arms at a slight angle so they keep the arms from drooping down lower than what looks natural; make the top tips of the shoulder pads act like a lip that catches on his shoulders.
  4. now repeat this for the multi melta and heavy flamer.

you can get plenty of extra gunner arms from every rhino kit if your not making a manned-gunner in every pintle weapon; i like to make mine with the pintle weapon sitting there unmanned, so i have spare arms i can give you if you dont have any. you just gotta come up with your own shoulder pads.

originally i had magnetized my typhoon missiles as well, but i didnt like how they'd sometimes get top heavy and spin into a droopy pose, so when i decided i'd field them everytime with those, i glued them in place. but if you want to, there's an easy way to magnetize them and make them look custom too:

  1. assemble the missile racks as normal up to the point before you mount them onto the land speeder
  2. trim off the entire mounting bar so its just the missile pod
  3. attach a magnet to the spot you just removed the mounting bar from
  4. place another magnet on the underside of one of the wings
  5. repeat for the other side
  6. marvel at your first custom modded land speeder typhoon.


i can also show you how i did the underbelly guns magnets for modeling a land speeder tornado pattern as well.

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Re: vannilla marines help

Post  Rhaevyn on Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:51 pm

Roland wrote:Selik:
I'm actually using the cheap-ass craft magnets from wal-mart.

gotta be careful of your polarity when using the cheapo magnets. a lot of times they are polarized down the center of the flat of the magnet instead of top/bottom. magnets polarized like that will only stick in a single position so you wouldn't be able to move a turret left/right or move an arm up/down like on a dreadnought or say a terminator.

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Re: vannilla marines help

Post  Roland on Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:31 pm

The cheapo's are for switching out the SB/reg hatches and Rhino/Rback/WW Weapons. Not as concerned w/ being able to rotate as I am to be able to switch out. And it's actually the magnetized sheets.

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Re: vannilla marines help

Post  Timbo on Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:23 pm

dusktiger wrote:and the MM typhoon cant do that as well? you can still do that with them too; i do it that way all the time with my squad and they work fine. its that thinking that gets people to let me get away with killing alot more of their army than they expect. dont listen to him, kevin, it's a fine combo.


The MM typhoon absolutely can do it. You have to be within 24" to fire a multi-melta and 2 frag missiles at infantry (ugh) or if you're using your range with the krak missiles then the MMs are useless. You can fire both weapons at a vehicle if you're within 24" AND you move 6" or less. That's basically using a 100-point armour 10 vehicle as a suicide weapon. Of course if you want to get within melta range, well you can imagine what will happen to your speeders next turn. The heavy bolter allows you to keep out of bolter range while punishing infantry, while still having some utility against vehicles. I find with typhoons they are always playing the range game, keeping at their absolute limit while other threats (like dreadnoughts, attack bikes, speeder tornadoes) are in my opponent's face. This gives the expensive typhoons some semblance of protection. A MM typhoon has a huge target painted on it and if it's playing against me I won't let it shoot more than once. Do listen to me Kevin, the MM and missile launcher have no synergy.

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Re: vannilla marines help

Post  System Commander on Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:49 pm

MM speeders are almost always a priority for me as well. Single attack bikes are right behind.. and a bit more annoying since they can hide a bit easier behind terrain and other vehicles... but flat out speeders tend to be hard enough to kill for me as it is.

Since Ive been playing grey knights though.. I havent had a problem with any low armour vehicles.. those psyflemen dreads, wowza.


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Re: vannilla marines help

Post  dusktiger on Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:52 pm

bah, nvm; i forgot you only make lists that are effective for tournies and not for fun or looks; we'll just agree to disagree. but either way its kevin's choice if he likes the weapons/appearance; i'm just stating it's not a BAD choice, a MM/Typhoon is a nice playable unit; not a waste of points; wont get into a debate over their synergy based on interweb lists people post in their blogs.

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Re: vannilla marines help

Post  Timbo on Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:20 am

dusktiger wrote: wont get into a debate over their synergy based on interweb lists people post in their blogs.

Heh. It's a waste of only 20 points, because you will almost never get to shoot the MM and Krak missiles on the same turn. That's all I'm saying. IMO 100 points is just too much for a suicide 1 and done vehicle.

I don't think I like your insinuation here. Mike, I've been playing Warhammer 40K since 1989. That's almost 22 years. How old are you? Yes, I research the game online because I realize there are a lot of players out there who play the game at a much higher level than me. I do however have some experience to draw from, and have won a few events in my day. I even have a Rogue Trader pile of skulls somewhere to prove it! So your suggestion that I get all of my 40K knowledge from the internet and am not drawing from a fair bit of experience is inaccurate and a bit insulting. Your remark that I don't play games for fun I'll just ignore. I try to win my games if that's what you mean. Anything less is an insult to my opponent.

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Re: vannilla marines help

Post  Selik on Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:08 am

I can see both sides of the argument about the wps to put onto a speeder. I liked the hvy bolter and missles, I think it is a tough call. I think I may have to play test my list I am thinking of.

librarian in termie armor.
5 assault termies in landraider with MM around 585pts

tac squad 230pt
sgt pw fist
flamer&missle launcher
rhino

tac squad 240 pts
sgt pw fist
melta & MM
rhino

bikes 200pts
sgt - pw fst
4 bikes x1 melta
attack bike MM

speeders 100pts
landspeeder TYPHoon Missles, MM

assault squad 150pt
sgt pw wp Plasma pistol
4 SM 1xplasma pistol

the basic idea is to have the fast attack work together to make my opponent have to make some tough target priority decisions. I think it would take some time to get the tactics down for doing that.
I have a few other ideas that I would like to try out with dropping the land raider or the termies. I hardly ever play the same list twice so I always have more models than I need.
the pts are at 1505, I could be off because my book is not handy this early in the morning. this is just a rough draft.

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Re: vannilla marines help

Post  Roland on Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:03 am

List looks good, a few more threatening units than last one.

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Re: vannilla marines help

Post  System Commander on Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:54 pm

Mike.. really? Im not going to bring up the three lists I faced in the "fun" campaign we played.. but .. come on. Maximizing a unit for effectiveness and maximizing it for fun are of course different things. You just posted a huge article on how to win and maximize effectiveness with bikers.. why would you be offneded with Tim doing the same thing?

I guess Im trying to figure out why you're getting so offended, especially at Tim. It was the same with the bike discussion. People are asking for advice.. but when Tim weighs in with his experience and knowledge, you seem to get offended. Everyones got opinions.. and we should be able to discuss them .. without the cheap shots or snide comments.

I think Tim's analysis of the land speeders are dead on.. but in the end you have to decide for yourself. Being offended because Tim pointed out what he thinks works better. I think the best speeders are plain with the MM with the heavy flamer (how much is it with the flamer option?) , but if your lacking on some troop killing.. the assault cannon/heavy bolter mix is also a pain in the butt.. especially if you have 2-3 them.. ugh. Jubins been playing with his angels and running a unit of 3 of those.. and the single MM one.. what a pain in the ass they are.

Personal preference of course.. I just dont like the missile launchers on the speeders. You can easily take them on some scouts or tac squads and stay within range easily enough.. I guess the one good argument for the typhoons would be for outflanking/deep striking.. if your looking for a butt shot on some tanks coming in.. but even in that case the MM will probably still be more effective.

But.. in the end its still player preference. When I play with a chaos list.. I still always bring a unit of berserkers with a champ packing a PW. I know its not as effective.. but ive been using it so long and have always had good luck with them, thats it hard for to change.





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Re: vannilla marines help

Post  Timbo on Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:32 pm

That list looks ok Kevin. You have 2 units, your assault squad and your bike squad where your special weapons are not maxed. I'd try to do this if possible. Maybe drop a powerfist on one of the sergeants to save the points? Otherwise it looks very solid, you should have fun with it. Remember, null zone is no good if you forget to use it! Also, gate of infinity is pretty cool:)

Edit: Are special weapons 1/5 guys in the assault squad? I don't have my codex in front of me. If so, forget that part of my advice. And remember, you could get 2 multi-melta attack bikes for the cost of that speeder. Just sayin'.

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Re: vannilla marines help

Post  Roland on Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:46 pm

Specials are indeed 1/5 in assault squads. That said the sgt can take a Plas Pistol as well.

I'd either drop the LS for 2 Attack bikes, or take it to a HB Typhoon and use the 10 pts to upgrade the Assault sgt's PW tp a PF. But that's me. I think you have your core down, anything past this is tweaks and personal preference.

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Re: vannilla marines help

Post  Selik on Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:40 pm

I think that I have the core of the list now too. I think it will be a good bae to start for larger pt battles as well. All though that 1000pt game with 3 per side was a good game.

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