What happens first? Monolith Question

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What happens first? Monolith Question

Post  Lore Weaver on Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:25 am

Lets say a Monolith deepstrikes on to the table. Can it use its portal after deepstriking?

(Notice, Tim, that I used the correct "its". Just for you buddy! *laughs*)

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Re: What happens first? Monolith Question

Post  gluvzer on Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:19 pm

I don't own the codex, but if it is actually using the deep strike USR without any other special rules, then it would be travelling at "cruising speed" I beleive (terminology could be wrong, I don't have my rule book handy), and follow the allowable activities for it's type of vehicle at that speed.

Are there any moving restrictions when using the portal?


Last edited by gluvzer on Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: What happens first? Monolith Question

Post  Lore Weaver on Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:20 pm

Can it teleport some dudes when it pops on?

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Re: What happens first? Monolith Question

Post  gluvzer on Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:22 pm

Are there restrictions for portaling while moving? And at what part of what phase does the portal take place?

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Re: What happens first? Monolith Question

Post  Lore Weaver on Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:23 pm

No, just that it happens "in the beginning of the movement phase".

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Re: What happens first? Monolith Question

Post  gluvzer on Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:26 pm

hmmm. Deepstriking takes place at the beginning of the movement phase too(?) Without my rulebook here, I am no further help to you. I would need to see if there is an order to follow, maybe deepstrike has to take place first. I dunno.

But, if the portal has to be used "before" moving occurs, I would say no. I don't know the wording for the special rule.

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Re: What happens first? Monolith Question

Post  dusktiger on Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:12 pm

Eternity Gate; Dimensional Corridor - at the start of the movement phase, choose one friendly unengaged non-vehicle necron unit on the battlefield or in reserve. that unit immediately phases out from its current position and 'disembarks' from the monolith's portal. any models that cannot be placed are removed as casualties, but the move is otherwise treated exactly as disembarking from a vehicle that has moved at cruising speed.

that's the rule verbatim

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Re: What happens first? Monolith Question

Post  System Commander on Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:42 pm

In most other instances.. rules that both occur at the beginning of the phase cant be used one after another. Deep strike at the beginning of the movement phase, but now the portal rule.. but its not the beginning of the movement phase.

I would personally feel no.. but I thought there might be something similar in the faq's regarding two things happening at the start of the pahse.. will have to take a look.

Hows the community as a whole weighing in on it?

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Re: What happens first? Monolith Question

Post  Lore Weaver on Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:55 pm

The internets are more consumed by how the death ray works. A single ork boy in a unit of 30 under the line = 30 hits or 1 hit. Personally, I think it's 1 hit, but arguments are compelling both ways. (There's no comma, so I think it's 1 hit).

There's a lot of jibber jabber about crypteks, whip coils vs. grey knight wargear, but not much talk of the monolith.

There's been some chit chat about whether the particle whip AND the flux arcs can fire in the same turn, but I'd think no, as the whip is ordinance.

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Re: What happens first? Monolith Question

Post  gluvzer on Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:00 pm

I feel, no. The portal is happening before the actual movement of the vehicle.

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Re: What happens first? Monolith Question

Post  Rhaevyn on Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:09 pm

i would say no as well.

the portal isn't on the board at the beginning of the phase. so it doesn't trigger. all the things that happen at "start of a phase" happen generally at the same time, you just resolve them in an order to avoid paradoxes and being sucked into the warp.

the only rule i have in the top of my head that corroborates this is that a reserved chaos dreadnought doesn't have to roll for rage on the turn he comes onto the table, because he wasn't actually there at the start of the turn to trigger the effect.

i know this is different because its both happening at the start of the same phase, but i think the logic would apply.

now saying that, I'm mostly applying MTG effect resolution logic here and GW logic is tainted by the warp and vast amounts of inhaled overpriced citadel super glue.

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Re: What happens first? Monolith Question

Post  Rhaevyn on Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:13 pm

i'm staying at the west Edmonton mall this evening. i'll stop by and question the acne factories that work at the GW store here for an opinion =)

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Re: What happens first? Monolith Question

Post  gluvzer on Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:49 pm

Rhaevyn wrote:i'm staying at the west Edmonton mall this evening. i'll stop by and question the acne factories that work at the GW store here for an opinion =)

lol. They won't have a clue. You know that already!

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Re: What happens first? Monolith Question

Post  Rhaevyn on Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:07 pm

yes. but its fun to watch the gears grind while they try to convince me they aren't full of shit Smile

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Re: What happens first? Monolith Question

Post  Roland on Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:49 am

Wouldn't the effect be like Deep striking a Termie Lord w/ an Icon and then using it to bring in a unit of SLDs, or Deploying a DP w/ locator Beacon and then bringing in termies? In both cases not allowed ( I realize they are DS in both examples but the intended effect is the same.

Actually can a GK Libby DS in with his termie body guard and then teleport the unit elsewhere?

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Re: What happens first? Monolith Question

Post  Spamus Eatus on Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:47 pm

As much as I would like the portal to work that way, because it would be awesome and totally in character it likely doesn't, for all the reasons everyone has already stated. Another similar precedent is the poor lictor. He can't affect reserve rolls until he is already on the table (which I also have to roll for, but that's a small rant unto itself) Also, I was cross-referencing the codex and RB quite a bit in regards to the whip and flux arcs, and no you can't fire them in addition to the whip, because it's ordnance. So the monolith kinda got fluxed over on that one. Pity, again cause that seems totally appropriate for a FLYING STRUCTURE. Although the *Heavy* status the monolith has might have some bearing once 6th rolls around. The particle whip should have been heavy and the doomsday cannon ordnance instead, but now I'm ranting Razz

In regards to the deathray, I'm also in the camp that it only hits as many models as the line goes over. When I first read the rule, it was a quick read and I also figured that it was the entire unit. Then common sense kicked in. It's a potent enough weapon as is without making whole ork mobs dissapear in one shot. As it is, this weapon will single handedly prevent the rhino/chimera parking lot effect. I have no issue with this at all Very Happy

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Re: What happens first? Monolith Question

Post  Lore Weaver on Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:08 pm

Indeed, the Deathray is still very ridiculous.

I don't even think I'd deepstrike it. Just count on going first with stormlord on the board and move 12" drop your line 12" further than that, and hope to go over two or three transports. They're all hit automatically with ST10 AP 1, so immo on a 3, popped on a 4+. Kinda good. On your opponents first turn, bye-bye deathray.

175 points for what will always be a one-shot wonder, unless your opponent is sleeping!

Who knows, maybe once in a while you'll make a living metal roll and your opponent will get two turns of deathray in the face!

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Re: What happens first? Monolith Question

Post  Spamus Eatus on Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:20 pm

You can use your cryptek with a solar pulse to make it night during the other guys' phase in order to give the thing a shot at surviving the return fire, of course Very Happy

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Re: What happens first? Monolith Question

Post  Lore Weaver on Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:24 pm

With Stormlord, first turn will always be nightfight anyway, and you don't have to roll sight or roll to hit with the deathray.

Just move that puppy up 7", drop a spot 12" towards some tank, and roll your 3D6" towards some random transport. It's fair to count on 10" for a 3D6 roll. If your lucky / cheeky, you might get a good angle on two vehicles.

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necro-post: wall of text

Post  ShenkyeiRambo on Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:38 am

Big necro-post I know, I know, but I was reading this and had a thought. In Magic: The Gathering, (yes I play it) when theres a series of things that makes a card (or in 40k's case - model/squad) everything is chosen tobe part of that effect, THEN they all happen at the same time. ie, if Hex is played (Hex - Magic: The Gathering), the casting player chooses the 6 target creatures, then they're all destroyed at the same time. Opposite effect I know, but the idea of bringing creatures into play is exactly the opposite. If a spell were to bring 2 or more creatures from a graveyard into play (Liliana Vess - look at the bottom of the card beside the -8), they would be chosen, then all brought into play at the same time as the spell resolves. With 40k Deep Strike, wouldn't the Deep Striking units "chosen" via D6 roll - such as this Monolith, and (example) one unit of Deathmarks, but 2 units of Flayed Ones were unable to enter the table - then be placed on the table, and finally when the active player says he/she's done with Deep Striking then wouldn't they have all Deep Struck at the same time?

In short, when the Deathmarks and Monolith are chosen to Deep Strike, wouldn't they technically enter the table at the same time?


Also if above is true - by vote or FAQ - then the Monolith's gate of cool-stuff would be an entirely different ability to trigger at-will. So as the active player, couldn't they then decide what happens first? So far I haven't read anything here that explains the rules through example. Mostly just group vote and teeny explanations that are large enough to make a decent amount of sense that quailifies for a local FAQ.


Also, I do realize these two are COMPLETELY separate games, like apples and oranges and rules are really different, but I really don't need to hear that kind of horse-shit. It just tends to piss many people off when its said when it is an already widely known fact.

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Re: What happens first? Monolith Question

Post  System Commander on Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:31 am

You dont know how hard it is to not write.. "but they are 2 different games" right now.. just because you said not to...

So.. hard.. resisting.... ..

But unless they faq it.. the rules has always been if its not on the table at the start if the turn.. you cant use any abilities that trigger at the start of the turn. Cant change that one.. we'd have a long list of other problems pop up if we did.

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Re: What happens first? Monolith Question

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