6th edition rumours

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6th edition rumours

Post  System Commander on Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:01 pm

Here are a few rumours floating around from the development teams working on 6th edition. They're from Blood of Kittens, which has been bang on accurate with everything they've posted. However, even he claims he can;t confirm any of this, just some rumours. But worth a read if this is the direction going in...


Some more examples for the development doctrines
One rulebook for all:
- flyer rules are incorporated in the main rules
- narrative rule section that expands core rules: formations, super heavies, gaining experience
- modular rules, core rules can easily be expanded by narratives rules or another expansion set

Heroic characters:
- independent characters more powerful, armour save and invulnerable save at the same time
- squad leaders more important, no more 50% rallying threshold, unit can rally as long as squad leader lives
- independent characters can snipe

More visceral combat:
- standard cover only 5+ now, Feel No Pain (1) only on 5+
- slow slogging units very vulnerable
- some weapon types are specialized in taking out specific unit types and are incredible good at doing this (sniper vs. infantry without armour), but on the other hand ordnance vs flyer isn’t going to do much

streamlined:
- no more random movement at all
- 5 general types of psychic powers
- wound allocation like 4th edition on unit basis, but attacker can chose every 5th wound to go to a single model (sniper weapon every second wound)
- artillery is normal immobile vehicle squadron, crew has no other game purpose than to be a counter for rate of fire and attacks

clean up of combusted rules:
- there are tiers for most of the special rules. Instant Death (2) circumvents Eternal Warrior (1) for example. Feel No Pain (1) is 5+, Feel No Pain (2) is 4+ and Feel No Pain (3) is 3+. If no value is given, the special rule is tier 1.
- no more difference between leadership test and morale test
- terrain rules on a single page, true line of sight, non-vehicles models are ignored altogether, rules for special terrain like bunkers, ruins or deathworld mangroves in narrative rule section

less randomness, more strategic options:
- more elaborate reserve rules, can nominate turn of arrvial and has only small change to arrive earlier or later, or can intervene behind enemy lines, arrives randomly but can hinder enemy reserves, must be distributed evenly between turn two and three, later arrivals only randomly
-no more random game length
-no roll for first turn
-deep striking units more than 18” from enemy away don’t scatter, but landing in 6” is much more dangerous
- movement impairing effects from pinning weapons even if morale check is passed (if roll is above halved Ld), Fearless not immune to this, but only effected if rolled over full Ld
- more reactions to shooting than going to the ground depending on unit type and special rules. bikes can evade (3+ cover as same as before, but cannot assault or shoot next turn), jump troops can fly high, units with Stealth can attempt to vanish, …

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Re: 6th edition rumours

Post  System Commander on Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:03 pm

And a bit more from the same guy.. and.. I only have one thing to say to say.. Codex : Chaos Legions.. *tee hee*


I was told in privacy but can’t vouch for the accuracy. Corrected some spelling errors from icq conversation:
>>I am really pissed! The recent shift in GW’s marketing strategy is only the beginning. The goal is to completely control every bit of information that is going out and make every advance sneak peek look like an accidental leak. Think of Apple and you know what they are trying to achieve. They simultaneously try to keep the internet crowd happy with some leaked bits here and there and the store crowded focused on the next release. Prepare for more of these infamous “you see one eighth of the miniature and should stand in awe” pictures. The restructured White Dwarf will be the only place for “official” news. The days when Games Days were a good source for exciting news are gone. No more seminars. Independent shop owners will get the info at the same time as the public. From autumn on product codes will be chiffres and retailers have to order bulk packages for new releases without knowing what is in it if they want to get the releases on the first day. If they want to buy the boxes individually they have to wait two weeks until GW releases the chiffres. Mail Orders won’t arrive on the day of release, they will be SENT on the day of release. So no more accidental early arrivals. If you want to buy a product on the day of release you have to go to a GW store or one of the shops that have bought the release package. There is no chance to get the products via an online store on time. The retail embargo for the southern hemisphere were initially planned for every single country, so no more exports from UK to continental Europa, but GW’s law division stopped this as it would have violated EU laws. So now they will introduce two boxes for every release with exactly the same content but different boxes. One is for the retail in a single country and comes at the standard wholesale price. The other box has all the necessary taxation and regulatory clearances for export. These boxes are virtually the same but GW is charging an extra fee for them. Online shops can choose to stop exports or accept a serious blow to their profit margins.
We, the gamers, are sitting on the receiving end of this dishonest policy once more. We are treated like children and that is exactly the goal of these changes. So here are some of their plans, as long as the info is available, to spoil some of their surprises:

* first 6th edition codexes, but release before or with rulebook, small release with single or two waves: Black Templars (1 waves: 2x plactic, 2x Finecast), Tau (1 wave: 3x plastic boxes, 4x Finecast), Necrons (2 waves)

* first real 6th edition codex: Codex Chaos Legions, really big release in three waves, doesn’t invalidate Codex Chaos Space Marines which gets extensive White Dwarf update as Codex Renegade Space Marines

* two starter sets, each with rules, dices, movement markers, mission booklet, one with Dark Angels and fitting scenery, the other with Black Legion and Chaos scenery. You can combine both to play the campaign or use one set alone to play a selection of dumbed down scenarios against every other force, first starter set that comes with a model for a well established special character

* 6th edition is finished rulewise for some time now, the overall goal is to fix some of the long time problems of the game system. Expect a lot more fundamental improvements than last edition. The rules were even more ambitious at some stage of development, but didn’t get approved as they were too far away from the established rules. The main designer left company and his successors brought the rules back in line with the existing codexes. The rules are nonetheless a bigger step forward than from 4th to 5th. Changes are so big that the next edition relies partial on erratas to fix old codexes. Development relied heavily on feedback of veteran playtesters. You can see some results of this new approach by the way the FAQs were handled in the last months. All codexes since Codex Tyranids were written with the new rules in mind, especially the new mission and reserve structure.

* The main design goals are: one book to rule them all, heroic characters, visceral combat, streamlined mechanism, cleaned up presentation and strategy before chance

* strong narrative focus on Chaos, perspective shifting from the Empire to the struggle between free races and the Warp

* the biggest rule changes:
- similar ballistic to hit chart as wound chart: compare BS to target’s speed and unit type. BS 3 hits moving infantry on 4+, but lightning fast jetbikes on 6+ and stationary tank on 2+… HUGE
- victory points are back, but with another twist: you get two victory points if an unit holds an objective for an entire game turn, if a scoring unit holds one, you get three and one if you destroy a squad leader or vehicle
- before the game there is a bidding contest for the opportunity of the first turn, if you bid more strategic points you can go first, but the enemy can spent these points on stratagems as in Cities of Death: 22 generic stratagems – for example for one point you can decide on night fighting or place an automatic gun, for four you can shift your reserves, most expensive stratagems are at 12 points and are really drastic, every unspent point can be used once a game for a reroll
- new turn sequence: prepare-movement-assault-shooting-consolidate
new phase “consolidate” phase for random movements, jetpack movements, pursuits, morale checks/effects and resolving shooting reactions
assault before shooting – big units are real roadblocks!<<

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Re: 6th edition rumours

Post  Dana on Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:10 am

The one point you posted that I can confirm isnt happening is that nobody uses ICQ anymore. Get your facts right robyn

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Re: 6th edition rumours

Post  System Commander on Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:32 am

Hehe.. your damn rightonthat point. Although, even for some reason.. I dont know why, I can still remember my icq# from back in 1995 when I first signed up for it so I could chat with the other people on Ultima Online... ouch. I dont know if that makes me feel really nerdy or really old. Who am I kidding, its both.

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6th

Post  Commander James of the Ul on Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:20 pm

Hmm interesting

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Re: 6th edition rumours

Post  Timbo on Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:54 pm

I find it a bit worrying. The consensus was that 5th edition was a major improvement over 4th and the game needed only minor tweaking. Independant characters needed to be a bit better (or less vulnerable at least) in assaults, and vehicles needed to have their movement rules clarified and be a bit less durable. That was about it. These sound like major changes. Like radical changes. Like everyone will have to buy all new models again because the game works completely different. Moving the assault phase? Changing the shooting rules? It's too early to pass judgement but I really do not understand how GW works. At all.

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Re: 6th edition rumours

Post  gluvzer on Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:01 pm

@Tim
New Armywise, that's kind of what 4th to 5th was like (no mech to all mech). Not saying this to be negative to GW because I know they're a global corp that wants to make $, but isn't in thier best interest to change the rules to make people want to buy new stuff for their armies? Not that I'd be a fan.

However, I don't think GW would want to nerf vehicles too bad (especially transports) I think selling a rhino for $40 for a 35pt model is good for business if it performs well on the table too.

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Re: 6th edition rumours

Post  Timbo on Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:26 pm

I agree to a point. But appreciation for GW with their finecast/price hikes is at an all-time low. If their next big move is to force everyone to buy all new models they risk alienating a lot of players.

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Re: 6th edition rumours

Post  gluvzer on Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:48 pm

Agreed, but I wouldn't expect 6th edition for at least another year, hopefully longer.

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6th edition

Post  Selik on Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:23 pm

I am not sure how I feel about a new set of rules. I think with such large changes GW will make more errors. With that more FAQs because of all the fixes that come with a whole new set of rules. Mind you, I have always had house rules to fix what I thought needed changing.

with a quick glance at these rumors, it looks like the game mechanics are going to slow down the game more instead of smoothing out game play. I will have o wait and see what actual rules come out and how they work exactly.

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Re: 6th edition rumours

Post  Roland on Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:47 pm

One book to rule them all: There is no way they are giving up a revenue stream of supplements/expransions.

I find the overall rules changes (if they are even true) to be ... jarring. I know some ppl complain about "HeroHammer" now, but these changes would make your HQ/IC's literal gods of the battlefield.

"Streamline the games/bid away stratagems to get first turn/22 general stratagems"= does not compute.

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Re: 6th edition rumours

Post  Timbo on Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:07 am

Here is Kirby's rather humourous and skeptical take on the 6th Ed rumours:

http://kirbysblog-ic.blogspot.com/2011/06/6th-edition-awesomeness.html#more

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Re: 6th edition rumours

Post  Guardian Angel on Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:58 pm

There are definately some "interesting" changes rumoured here, but we will have to wait and see.

Will these changes help smooth out game flow....I doubt it. Will it change things...no doubt.

I kinda like the idea that BS skill determines your chance to hit various targets.....that "man" is harder to hit then a "tank"....you don't say.

I can't remember the fantasy rules exactly....but don't you charge into CC before shooting there? I am not sure what I think about the revised turn sequence yet. Not being able to blast off your assault weapons before charging in?? Seems strange....

One thing that would be cool (I think) to see would be CC attacks based on the weapons in hand. Right now, a SM Serg with Power Weapon and Bolt Pistol gets 3 attack with his P. Weap. What if it was tweaked slightly to say he can get 2 attacks with P. Weap and the "extra" attack with the BP. This would mean that 2 attacks would have no save and one would be AP 5. You could also go a bit further to say that CC weapons use the weilders strength and "guns" use the guns strength. This could make a Chain Sword/Plasma Pistol wielding Guard Serg more of a threat in CC....chop, chop....ZAP!! I know that this would definately not be help the flow of Assault, but I think it might be cool.....and yes, I do see the "problem" with the generic space marines that has Bolter/Bolt Pistol and 1 attack. You would always have them fire their BP in CC and get AP 5....but if it was accounted for, it might be balanced....but it would make generic SM in CC much scarier.

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re 6th ruours

Post  Commander James of the Ul on Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:45 pm

I'm with Guardian, we are just going to have to wait and see what comes out. One this conversation is starting to show how scared people are of CHANGE.
It is the job of GW to always come out with new stuff or people get bored of it and build a model plane or car. If GW didn't continually come out with new rules or products the consumer wouldn't have a reason to buy stuff they already have. If they aren't selling products THEY DON'T MAKE MONEY. I don't just do my job because I like to feed thousands of people a year. I like to make money. The board of GW probably likes to make money to. So they are always going to come out with new rule books and new units and cooler existing products.
Now I also saw someone comment on the price hick. That was very predictable. Plastic need petroleum for production and transport. What have fuel prices been doing??? They haven't been falling. But I will argue that GW marketing is very reactionary to the markets rather them progressive. Any one could have predicted the trouble with Europe, the middle east up rise and the fuel price surge. Frankly I would have made these changes in January. Yes some products are more expensive, probably because they many be more popular.
Any way I don't think the 6th edition will be out next year or so. So (hopefully) GW is now as we speak trying out the 6th edition with the current codex's. And if there is a problem they will trouble shoot it. I HOPE.
Any way I almost cut off three fingers on a under ground power cable. So I am high as a kite on some stuff. So I do not mean to be mean on this thread. Just trying to help see through this. In the end it is always about MONEY

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Re: 6th edition rumours

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