The fail of chaos?

View previous topic View next topic Go down

The fail of chaos?

Post  judchic on Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:01 pm

Ok, so I haven't been playing 40k that long but I don't understand what the problem is with the chaos codex...
Its not a bad codex, is it?

judchic
Lord of Titan

Posts : 1050
Join date : 2008-10-20
Age : 29

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The fail of chaos?

Post  Guest on Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:10 pm

judchic wrote:Ok, so I haven't been playing 40k that long but I don't understand what the problem is with the chaos codex...
Its not a bad codex, is it?

its not bad but its really hard to play fluff wise, and there are some retarded inconsistency that we have with our loyalist kin.(land raiders)

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The fail of chaos?

Post  Guest on Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:30 pm

bensutherland333 wrote:
judchic wrote:Ok, so I haven't been playing 40k that long but I don't understand what the problem is with the chaos codex...
Its not a bad codex, is it?

its not bad but its really hard to play fluff wise, and there are some retarded inconsistency that we have with our loyalist kin.(land raiders)

theres TONS of fluff Ben-is (i told you i'd bring up how you wrote you name)


Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The fail of chaos?

Post  judchic on Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:16 pm

But don't chaos get landraiders cheaper and possessed?

judchic
Lord of Titan

Posts : 1050
Join date : 2008-10-20
Age : 29

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The fail of chaos?

Post  System Commander on Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:01 am

There area couple issues with the codex, but I can tell where all the hate comes from.

The main complaint that chaos players have with the book is that it was probably right at the height of the "simple is better" philosophy at GW.. soon after the chaos book, they reversed that and now things are getting much more vibrant again. The last chaos book had rules for.. oh, let me think.. about 9 different and very distinct armies..

Standard (Black Legion), Alpha legion, Iron Warriors, Word Bearers, Night Lords, Worldearters, Death Guard, Thousands Sons and Emperor's Children. Am I missing one? Anyway, each army was very unique and it spawned all sorts of wonderful army conversions and modelling ideas.

The new book came out, and well.. yeah, everything was mushed into one army. It took alot of the flavour out I would argue, which is really to bad.

The other big complaint is that is has several units that are pretty bad when compared to the other options available. The troops choices are all very strong.. the daemon prince is great, defiler, oblits, terminators.. all pretty decent.

So, to make a fairly competitive list you really have to trim the fat and stick with the stronger units.. which in the end gives you a mash up of the different legions in essence.

I was really dissapointed with the possessed in the new book, and more than anything else, the chaos lord. The possessed were really strong in the last book, so I could see a cost adjustment coming.. but the random power thing is tough to swallow. And the lord.. once you buy him a few things, hes as much a daemon prince and much worse. The daemon wepoan can be strong.. but roll a 1 and hes pretty much screwed.. plus, he can be insta-killed so you relaly have to be careful with him. The prince is so much better at everything.. I have taken a lord now and then to mix things up, but its always a dissapointment.

Land raiders are a bit cheaper, but are priced like that becasue they get no machine spirit.

I think though, that most chaos players were more dissapointed in the army changes than the unit problems I pointed out. All the uniqueness of running an Alpha legion army for example where the marines all infiltrated and you could stalk up on expendable human cultists dissapeared.. Even for me playing Worldeaters.. the army changed. I try to still play a straight Worldeaters when I can, but with the restrictions lifted from heavy and weapon choices.. and the mean daemon prince/bloodletter choices gone, Ive now got Obliterators and heavy tanks..

So, good things and bad things. Right before the new book had come out I had ordered about 40 assorted necromunda minis because I really wanted to make an Alpha legion force.. .. Sad

GW.. and more specifically, Gav Thorpe.. has taken alot of heat with how the chaos book turned out. I dont really know if they'll have legion specific codexes.. or if they really need them.. but a return to special rules for the separate armies is sorely needed. I do think the chaos codex is definitely still playable in its standard format, and can be competitive, but its just not as colorful as it used to be.

System Commander
System Commander

Posts : 4693
Join date : 2008-02-26

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The fail of chaos?

Post  Guest on Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:40 am

i have always been a big fan of the word bearers,

i wish you could have bunch of cultists for a squad and a marine hero or something in there thats a bit more buffed then a normal marine. but of course there would be only one.




Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The fail of chaos?

Post  Guest on Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:57 pm

As has been stated, there is a HUGE complaint versus the fluffy'ness of the current codex. However, Chaos Space Marines are most definetly a top tier army. Daemon Princes are cheaper and better than HQ's in practically every other codex in the game. Our basic dudes come triple equiped with bolters, pistols, and swords. The whole army has high Leadership values. And Generic Summonable Daemons cost barely anything. Plague Marines are one of the toughest per-point troop models in all 40k.

So, if you are very attached to the 40k fluff and really want to feild a particular named legion, then this codex may not be for you. But if you are fine playing 'bad guys with awesome powers' then Go Chaos!

--Kill! Maim! Burn!

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The fail of chaos?

Post  gluvzer on Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:33 pm

canadin wrote: However, Chaos Space Marines are most definetly a top tier army.


lol!!! if you want to reference a 'tier leveling' for codex's there is no way chaos would be in the 'top'


_________________

gluvzer
Lord of Titan/Hero of ToonCon/Ayatollah of Rock n' Rolla
Lord of Titan/Hero of ToonCon/Ayatollah of Rock n' Rolla

Posts : 1428
Join date : 2008-03-11
Location : S'toon

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The fail of chaos?

Post  gluvzer on Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:37 pm

Let me explain. I personally do not believe in a tier ranking for 40k. I think there are A) books that are done right, B) books that are done wrong, and C) books that need an update. Chaos fits into a little from column B and a little from column C.

Take a look at all recent codexes since 5th edition, they are, for the most part, done right (except the FAQ for nids didn't help). All the older 3rd and 4th books, whether done right or wrong, desperately need an update.

_________________

gluvzer
Lord of Titan/Hero of ToonCon/Ayatollah of Rock n' Rolla
Lord of Titan/Hero of ToonCon/Ayatollah of Rock n' Rolla

Posts : 1428
Join date : 2008-03-11
Location : S'toon

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The fail of chaos?

Post  System Commander on Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:48 pm

I'd agree with Ryan.

I think there could be certain builds in a chaos army that are competitive.. but in general, alot of the units themselves need some tweaks. The newer books are competitive and fun in all manners of design and builds. Chaos is competitive in a few, and definitely not fun in any of those, at least IMO.

Daemon princes are awesome. Obliterators are awesome.. Plague, Khorne and standard marines are great.. but.. so many others fall flat after that. Bikes, Raptors, Dreads, Lords, Possessed, Chosen.. they all have their uses for sure, and can be good in the right situation, but that can be said for any unit in the game. They just need some tweaking and an upgrade.. but in general, they just dont do enough.

Being a big chaos fan, I cant wait for when that update arrives.. BUT, I'd be even happier if it means the worse off gets updates first... and I guess by that were talking Tau and Necrons. Poor Necrons.. I can't wait to see what they do with them, .. I think it'll be pretty awesome. The more armies that have current rules that are up to par with the game standard at the moment means a greater variation and vibrance in everyones gameplay experience.

I cant see how releasing a new codex every ten years and enjoying that temporary boost in sales is better for business than a continuous effort to keep everything up to date. I just dont get it.. yet, here we are. But.. Dark Angel and Black Templar update.. another momentary yet fleeting burst of brilliance for or a change of philosophy. Sadly, probably the first.. but we can always wish. Im sure we had the same conversation 2-3 years ago when they first released all the online faq's..

Ive just been listening in the new 40K radio cast and am eagerly waiting the discussion on the GW financials. The new burst of mini games must really be starting to put some serious pressure on GW to shape up and change strategies and Im curious to see how they react.. just a sec, I bet I know.. Price increases!!!


System Commander
System Commander

Posts : 4693
Join date : 2008-02-26

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The fail of chaos?

Post  Guest on Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:51 pm

Has anyone heard about what codex'es might be looked at next? All Ive heard coming up is DaemonHunters

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The fail of chaos?

Post  System Commander on Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:36 pm

Yup, Grey Knights for sure in April.. the rest are all still rumours, although Necrons being the most buzzed about.

One would have to assume Tau or Chaos after Necrons.. both are popular enough to warrant an update so who knows. There has been basically nothing said either way, so don't take that with any grain of salt because I'm talking completely out of my ass.

System Commander
System Commander

Posts : 4693
Join date : 2008-02-26

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The fail of chaos?

Post  gluvzer on Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:55 pm

It would be nice if GW gave those older books a 'refresher' like Dark Angels and Black Templars while we waited for them.

_________________

gluvzer
Lord of Titan/Hero of ToonCon/Ayatollah of Rock n' Rolla
Lord of Titan/Hero of ToonCon/Ayatollah of Rock n' Rolla

Posts : 1428
Join date : 2008-03-11
Location : S'toon

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The fail of chaos?

Post  smackman on Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:10 am

lolz top tier army lolz... if you played all Tzeentch and had this guy roll dice for you (EDITORS NOTE: Insert picture of myself later for laughs)

Although I recently had a read through the guardsman codex... ARE YOU KIDDING ME? I can never own a guard army now... I'm way too beardy for that dex, it'd be like super man fighting a dead cripple for his wallet. Or wait... I'll just play mike with my chaos counts as guardsman list.... Just imagine the look on his face when rhino bolters counts as multi lasers leaf blower him off the table!

@Ryan - Thanks for all the reasonable games, I now know how lights out they could have been.

Honestly how they hell does that dex squeak past without play testing?

smackman
Inquisitor Lord

Posts : 754
Join date : 2008-11-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The fail of chaos?

Post  gluvzer on Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:20 am

Hey, no problem Tom. You are right. The guard book is very abusable. Triple vendetta's, 9 hydra's, etc.. I try to play my games around here with a competitive list. Not something my opponent is going to want to slit my throat over after turn 3. lol

If I were to go to a out of town tourny however...

_________________

gluvzer
Lord of Titan/Hero of ToonCon/Ayatollah of Rock n' Rolla
Lord of Titan/Hero of ToonCon/Ayatollah of Rock n' Rolla

Posts : 1428
Join date : 2008-03-11
Location : S'toon

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The fail of chaos?

Post  miv305 on Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:41 am

Ryan's to much of a softy to turn that book loose...

@Tom - we should totally play a counts as game of Guard vs. Word Bearer Wolf Angels! If we get confused as to what counts as what we'll just call Matt he's an expert cheers

miv305
Crusader

Posts : 299
Join date : 2008-05-16

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The fail of chaos?

Post  gluvzer on Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:02 pm

miv305 wrote:
@Tom - we should totally play a counts as game of Guard vs. Word Bearer Wolf Angels! If we get confused as to what counts as what we'll just call Matt he's an expert cheers

Ohhhh! Below the belt.

_________________

gluvzer
Lord of Titan/Hero of ToonCon/Ayatollah of Rock n' Rolla
Lord of Titan/Hero of ToonCon/Ayatollah of Rock n' Rolla

Posts : 1428
Join date : 2008-03-11
Location : S'toon

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The fail of chaos?

Post  kerr_matt80 on Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:30 pm

I feel a stabby knife like sensation in my back but I just cant seem to reach it

kerr_matt80
Assassin

Posts : 326
Join date : 2008-09-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The fail of chaos?

Post  Sponsored content Today at 5:05 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum