Tank Shocking Mycetic Spores

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Tank Shocking Mycetic Spores

Post  Guest on Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:21 pm

Spores are Fearless. Tank shocking a fearless unit allows it to "simply let the tank move through, as if it was not there". But what if the tank ends up on top of the spore?

Some people think a spore should be destroyed. This is beyond silly, there's absolutely nothing (aside from DoG!) that implies the Spore should be destroyed. And it's extremely rich to immediately insta-kill a Spore because your vehicle moved. Can it be that every time I touch a drop pod it immediately is removed from play?

RAW, the spore shouldn't be moved because codex trumps rulebook. But then the tank would be ontop of the spore, creating a segmentation fault in the rules because models cannot occupy the same space.

Two fixes:

1) The rulebook ruling is ignored, Spores cannot be tank shocked
2) The codex ruling is ignored, and Spores are moved out of the way.


What say ya?

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Re: Tank Shocking Mycetic Spores

Post  smackman on Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:35 am

Spores can't be tank shocked, treat them like vehicles (drop pods). Common Sense FTW!

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Re: Tank Shocking Mycetic Spores

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:58 am

if they get the benefits of monstrous creatures, why not the drawbacks as well?

It gets a shooty attack and a melee attack, it can't move, and it's listed as having "rudimentary intelligence and merely lashes out at everything nearby"

I would presume that adding that together, they would automatically attempt to death or glory if tank shocked. (With 6 str 6 attacks, they could do it too, if the enemy wasn't AV 12+).

And if anyone says "'well they still can't hurt Armour 13 or 14"..
That's like saying if a LR ram's a drop pod, that the drop pod shouldn't be affected b/c it's 'hit back' wouldn't be able to hurt the Land Raider. (If the Land Raider moves 12 to smack a drop pod. The Pod takes a STR 9 hit, the LR takes a STR 6 hit, which can't hurt it).

Both of them if hit by a vehicle have a chance of damaging the vehicle in return, except a heavy vehicle, which will just smash them to bits... as it should be.

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Re: Tank Shocking Mycetic Spores

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:12 am

Not that I wish to help your argument, but spores are MCs. So it's 6+2d6

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Re: Tank Shocking Mycetic Spores

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:10 am

AHA!

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Re: Tank Shocking Mycetic Spores

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:37 am

Jim, Death or Glory only gives you 1 attack on the thing thats running you over. 6+2d6, needing to stun, imobilize or destroy.

HC, Insofar as the spores are instakilled by tankshock/ram unlike drop-pods, welcome to the wonderful wide world of not everything is equal. A spore is not a drop pod, Indeed, the two are similar only in that they're immobile, they carry people, and they have specialty scatter rules. You make the assumption that the rules should change because spore lists have a disadvantage that pods don't, but the disadvantage is there.

I think Jim really has it best in that the spores really don't have an option but to death or glory. They attack anything that comes near them, and they're immobile so they can't very well get out of the way. ((Keep in mind that the spores are the only non-vehicle model that I know of that cannot move.))

Smackman, ...? Treat them as drop pods? Okay, so now I can ram them, I assume they're av12 like the pod... Alright, I roll a glance and, weapon destroyed... on... a monsterous creature? Treating them as pods would be to totally house rule them, and would bring up a host of other problems.

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Re: Tank Shocking Mycetic Spores

Post  Guardian Angel on Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:42 pm

After reading all the arguements, I would tend to agree with the automatic "Death or Glory"....but I could also be swayed by saying that the pod is allowed to move out of the way. This would go alone the logic line of that the pod does not have the ability to move itself...but could be pushed out of the way by something hitting it. However, similarly, the Pod does lash out indescriminately (screwed the spelling up there).

Ya....overall, I think the automatic "DoG" would make the most sense, as there is risk involved for both sides then....and it is not just an auto-kill situation.

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Re: Tank Shocking Mycetic Spores

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:40 pm

Caros wrote:welcome to the wonderful wide world of not everything is equal.
You seem rather opposed to the idea that nids would do something better than space marines. well, almost everyone does something better than marines, so... I don't know where you're coming from.

They attack anything that comes near them
Using fluff as an argument is not an argument.

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Re: Tank Shocking Mycetic Spores

Post  gluvzer on Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:21 pm

HolyCause wrote:
Caros wrote:welcome to the wonderful wide world of not everything is equal.
You seem rather opposed to the idea that nids would do something better than space marines. well, almost everyone does something better than marines, so... I don't know where you're coming from.

Jumping to conclusions are we? Wink

take it as it reads..not everything in this world is equal.

Anyways, I like the idea of death or glory for the spore, and like Jim and Ryan said, makes the most sense. But, I can't ever think of dealing with something that was considered immobile and not having an armour value before.
Besides a str6+2D6 automatic hit on rear armour ain't to bad against someone who's willing to risk shocking a spore.

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Re: Tank Shocking Mycetic Spores

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:18 pm

Point of Clarification - Death or Glory hits front armour, even if the attack is melee.


Also, alex - I figured that using fluff to solve something that has absolutely no basis in rules would be better than making up new rules.
IF you want to go straight RAW - It can NOT move out of the way b/c it can NOT move. ergo it HAS TO Death or Glory.
I was attempting to make my ponit from a less rules lawyerish standpoint by citing fluff and balance issues.

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Re: Tank Shocking Mycetic Spores

Post  gluvzer on Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:39 pm

Jemal wrote:Point of Clarification - Death or Glory hits front armour, even if the attack is melee.

ooops.... Thanks for the clarification before it could get jumped on.

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Re: Tank Shocking Mycetic Spores

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:45 pm

HolyCause wrote:You seem rather opposed to the idea that nids would do something better than space marines. well, almost everyone does something better than marines, so... I don't know where you're coming from.

No, I have a problem with false equivilency. In your first post you said "Can it be that every time I touch a drop pod it immediately is removed from play?". My point was that sometimes things aren't equal. Drop pods don't have to auto death or glory because there are specific rules for what happens to them if they are rammed, while spores follow a different set of rules, because they are a different thing. Not everything is equal.

The fact is, the most sensible ruling you can get out of the rules for spores indicate that the thing would attempt to death or glory, anything else requires you to bend the rules (If it doesn't have to death or glory you can end up with two models in the same space, or you can end up moving a model that specifically states that it is immoble.)

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Re: Tank Shocking Mycetic Spores

Post  Lord_Commander_Stash on Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:12 am

Well a tank tank shocking and going straight through follows the rules as goofy as it is.

Well there are 3 sollutions:
The first two make a ruling, either the spore moves, or it cant be tank shocked

the third is an interpretation that allows the two rules to coexist; making the spore death or glory automatically.

If you want to be technical and stric to the rules: you roll a 4+ everytime you want to tank shock a spore. Sometimes you can sometimes you cant.

However a group ruling would be best. I think the auto death or glory solve the problem just fine. (its a big risk to any tank to tank shock it after all).

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Re: Tank Shocking Mycetic Spores

Post  System Commander on Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:49 am

Yeah, definitely a weird situation. I'm definitely leaning towards allowing, I think it needs to be in there.. but the resolution.

I personally think that the spore should have to move once the vehicle tank shocks it.. I see it as a ram that hits the spore hard enough it shifts a bit. I think given there no right situation, that seems the best way to resolve it. If the spore wants, it can then decide to Death or Glory risking itself. However, doing it that way .. I dont think they'll be getting tank shocked that much as its a risky move giving the spore will hit back as a MC.

Resolving it the other way.. with the spore auto dying becasue it can't move out the way but getting an auto hit works to.. but it seems to me a bit of a stretch just because I dont like that a creature is being auto killed becasue it can't get out of the way.

Thats jsut the way I see it.. no ruling quite yet though.. need to contemplate this.. on the tree of woe..

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Re: Tank Shocking Mycetic Spores

Post  Guest on Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:25 pm

System Commander wrote:but it seems to me a bit of a stretch just because I dont like that a creature is being auto killed becasue it can't get out of the way.

Guardsmen being assaulted by terminators? *L* j/k.

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Re: Tank Shocking Mycetic Spores

Post  Lord_Commander_Stash on Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:57 pm

Jemal wrote:
System Commander wrote:but it seems to me a bit of a stretch just because I dont like that a creature is being auto killed becasue it can't get out of the way.

Guardsmen being assaulted by terminators? *L* j/k.

I have defeated the deathwing on multiple occasions with my IG hand to hand army Wink

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Re: Tank Shocking Mycetic Spores

Post  Paz on Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:30 pm

My vote is that is has to death or glory. makes sense fluff and rules-wise to me. And remember, its base 40 pts, this isn't that big a deal.

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Re: Tank Shocking Mycetic Spores

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