My Necrons

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My Necrons

Post  Guest on Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:38 pm

Update: This army is awaiting a new Codex so I'm not really doing anything with it.

.hc::necrons, 2 000

1 Necron Lord (Warscythe, Chronometron, Destroyer Body, Resurrection Orb); 190

6 Immortals; 168
6 Immortals; 168

10 Warriors; 180
10 Warriors; 180

5 Destroyers; 250
5 Destroyers; 250
7 Scarabs (Disruption Fields); 112

3 H. Destroyers; 195
3 H. Destroyers; 195
1 Tomb Spyder (Tomb Spyder); 110

1 998; 12


Last edited by HolyCause on Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:43 am; edited 9 times in total (Reason for editing : fixed some points errors)

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Re: My Necrons

Post  Timbo on Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:03 pm

The thing I'd be concerned with is that it's a very low model count for a 2000 point list. Losing games to phase out will be a very real possibility. It's very shooty though, and I guess that's the tradeoff you have to make.

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Re: My Necrons

Post  System Commander on Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:08 pm

That looks like a fun Necron list to play. I love immortals and heavy destroyers are about one of the best things the necrons can field right now. Youve got alot of firepower being thrown out, thats for sure.

The Necron Lord with Warscythe will make anyone nervous. Im not a big fan of the solar pulse myself, but it;'s one of those abilities that your opponent will probably not be looking for.

I still get the shakes thinking back years now when my buddy would Veil of darkness around the board with the lord and a pack of immortals. He teleport, unleash on a squad of poor guardsmen out of cover and destroy them.. them teleport behind a leman and destroy it.. every game that one squad would dissaemble my entire army..

Are the Tomb spyders bought as one heavy slot? I can never remember.

The main weakness, and the problem with most necron lists, is that you only have have the two troops slots. Yeah, it sucks having to load up on warriors, but in objective based games, your definitely going to have some trouble keeping those 20 guys alive.. even if they are necrons. Opponents will probably just keep picking on them till their gone.

Ive always loved the idea of Necrons, but I was jsut starting out when the book was released and never got into the army. When the new codex eventually comes out, I'll be seriously thinking about it.

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Re: My Necrons

Post  Guest on Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:24 pm

Losing games to phase out will be a very real possibility.
It's unfortunately true with every list, but I feel that a lot of firepower is good. Most of the units are toughness 5 and will almost always get their WBBs - there aren't a lot of ranged strength 10 weapons in 40K. So unless I get assaulted (which the shooty and Scarabs should stall) I'll almost always get WBB.

Im not a big fan of the solar pulse myself, but it;'s one of those abilities that your opponent will probably not be looking for.
Yeah, especially when they want to blow up my Tomb Spyders and Lord in the first turn thus suppressing WBB... oops, you can't see them! Razz

Are the Tomb spyders bought as one heavy slot? I can never remember.
Yup, 1-3 per slot, can be deployed independently. However I usually just keep them with the Lord and generate some swarms.

The main weakness, and the problem with most necron lists, is that you only have have the two troops slots. Yeah, it sucks having to load up on warriors, but in objective based games, your definitely going to have some trouble keeping those 20 guys alive.. even if they are necrons. Opponents will probably just keep picking on them till their gone.
This is one thing I've always wondered about. I've often done lists with more than 20 Warriors (and indeed, I own 60 warrior models) but they just don't seem to work. Warriors drop extremely easily and usually stay down because of strength 8/9 weaponry. What can help with their survivability is have them come in from reserve and just make them GTG on an objective. 3+ save and WBB? Yeah... going to be quite of a pain to get rid of ALL of them Smile

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Re: My Necrons

Post  Guest on Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:18 am

The problem I see with list isn't the problem of phase out but the problem of not being able to advance very well. Admittingly speaking you have the scarabs and the tomb spiders for melee, but thats not really all that much. When I look at necrons, I don't see an army that uses alot of troop selections to take all the points. Instead, I see an army that should hold its warriors back to hold a few of its own points and send a powerful force in to uncap the enemies points. Heck, every game I played with necrons I would leave them hiding in cover and go to ground when my opponents unloaded with the serious guns.

At the vey least, I would recommend fitting in a destroyer lord and slotting it with the scarabs. You're other one won't be getting alot of milage out of its warscythe if its forced to hang around with the shooties with that res orb.

And if you are really intent on stopping phase out, nothing beats a monolith recycling your guys through it to improve there we'll be back. Escpecially when it comes down to a necron lord with a phylactory.

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Re: My Necrons

Post  Guest on Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:20 pm

The Warscythe is more of an assault deterent, although I am thinking of making him a Destroyer Lord. Take away the Solar Pulse (kinda useless anyway, although in Dawn of War deployment it could be hilarious) and a Scarab and give him a D-body.

nothing beats a monolith recycling your guys through it to improve there we'll be back
Monoliths are nothing beyond a gimmick. Yes one can re-do WBB, but what slot do they take up? My one and only pathetic anti-tank option, which is what Necrons truly have a problem with. I wouldn't dare take away the Tomb Spyders also, they are incredibly useful for WBB also as it allows the army to deploy "phalanx" style with two wings instead of clustering everything together in a nice "template me" formation.

Not to mention it's a grand 235 points of no Necrons. Being able to try again on WBB is handy, but not when it's limited to one squad per turn. Smart players ignore the Monolith and go for (an easier) Phase Out.

They'd have to be a lot of codex changes in order to get me to use a Monolith. I do own two of them, but I still have not found a true use for them other than as cover.

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Re: My Necrons

Post  Guest on Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:47 am

What about the fact that a monolith is an anti-tank option? It has a strength 9, ordanance, large blast, and if it hits on target with a vehicle it becomes AP 1. You go up against land raiders and that gun will serve you much better than heavy destroyers will.

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Re: My Necrons

Post  Guest on Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:05 pm

What about the fact that a monolith is an anti-tank option?
One that costs 40 points more than three Heavy Destroyers (that's almost two Immortals), does not contribute to the Phase Out count (for every 4 models it ups by one, which is pretty significant when most of my army is getting 2+/3+ cover or is T5), only moves 6" and fires 24" (compared to 12" and 36"), and misses a lot (compared to H. Destroyers).

What about armies/builds with no AV14 or very little? The monolith starts looking less attractive. What about armies with only AV14 in the front? Again, Heavy Destroyers can move to shoot side/rear armour, improving their chances even more. I don't see the Monolith's weapon changing to strength 10. AP1 is nice, but not when it fails to do anything because it has to shoot front armour or hits the ground beside the vehicle.

Did I mention that the monolith doesn't contribute to the Necron's most gimped feature, Phase Out? If I use the Matrix for WBB, then... well, =I=censor=I=, then I'm not using my "anti-tank" option, am I?

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Re: My Necrons

Post  System Commander on Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:43 am

Yeah, if your going to go with one monolith, you might as well take two. One just sucks up to many points and will take all your opponent anti tank shooting so might as well big or go home. If you have two you can at least formulate a pretty scary battle plan teleporting people around. Having one is just asking for trouble..

I really like the list and I think you've made one which seems work best for you and I think would be fun. At least you've got alot of units that have some mobility which isn't a common thing for Necrons.

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Re: My Necrons

Post  Guest on Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:18 am

Alrighty, lets go through this then. First off, I don't agree with your concept of 3 destroyers being better for phase out than a monolith. While it is true, you're talking about a difference of 3 models in armys that usually have a composition of around necrons 40+. I don't see it making that much of a difference.

As for the armor 14 argument, you are missing the crucial point behind it. Yes, destroyers are better at shooting armors less than 13 or 14 than a monolith is BUT necrons don't have that much of an issue dealing with less armored vehicles. A Lemon Russ with 14 front armor would get sliced to bits by a couple of wraiths attacking rear armor in melee. My problem with not using a monolith is fighting armies that have high armor vehicles like that is basically a kick in the nuts. You lose any likely ability to do anything about it and that can cause very serious problems. Anything heavy destroyers can do at range, the necrons speedy melee guys can do up close. They cost less then heavy destroyers, you get more of them. Its basically the same argument you use against the monilith.

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Re: My Necrons

Post  System Commander on Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:54 pm

He doesnt want to use a monolith, I dont think we should try and convince him otherwise.I think its a fine idea not using a monolith.. and with phase out around you really do need all the necrons you can pack into the list even if that is just an extra unit of destroyers.

I think you just want him to use them since you pack all those twin linked railguns into your list which could take out a monolith a round.. Smile

There's lots of debate right now regarding necrons because they do struggle more so than other in 5th right now. The best thing to do is what Alex is doing, make a list you ll enjoy playing and wait for the new book!

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Re: My Necrons

Post  smackman on Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:52 pm

I love the list, lots of mobile heavy fire, slow gun line phalanx with warriors and immortals, I love all the destroyers trying to kite close combat troops. And honestly your phase out number isn't that low, quick scan I'd say your phase out number is 12? that's good. However I'm not a fan of scarabs, with the new close combat rules in 5th ed they're not the tar pit they once were, and putting them with a destroyer lord is more of a liability then anything else, they'll lower his units average toughness to 3 for shooting and in close combat they're gonna take alot alot alot of wounds, and that's bad because they won't inflict as many back against MEQ's and then the lord is forced to make LD check at 10-6 (if your lucky, but it'll probably be 10-8 or something) then he gets swept and can't WBB, personally I'd put him with wraiths, they're not dependable but they can hit first mostly and when they die that's only 10-3 for the lords LD check which he can probably pass. Biggest problem I have with my necron lords is they get swept because the new combat rules =I=censor=I= them hard in close combat.

I'd drop the scarabs, then seriously ponder the spiders, they get hit on 3's and high toughness is good but no invulnerable save, allocating wounds to their scarabs is great, but again never make more then 1 scarab per spider, scarabs are pure liability in 5th ed, they can only operate well on their own and even then they are full of fail, your oppenent doesn't have to take down 24 wounds for that squad of 8 he just has to put enough wounds on you to make them fail combat and then shrug off some strength 3 attacks.

Summary: Scarabs, don't =I=censor=I= use them in 5'th. Wraiths are good, they're pure hit and miss, they can either win the game as invincible gods of combat or fail 3/3 wounds on turn 1 and be banished from the table, I'd drop the scarabs and spiders for 3 wraiths and more immortals or another squad of warriors or another squad of 5 destroyers.

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Re: My Necrons

Post  smackman on Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:01 pm

Second note about Anti-Tank - EVERYTHING that shoots and has a Gauss weapon is anti tank, sure glancing hits are pretty pathetic in 5th ed but hey, if they can't move or shoot that's still decent, especially if it was your warrior squad that immobilizes, stuns, shakes and destroys a weapon on a land raider (don't discount warriors they're awesome at anti tank) the key is really to just pummel everything with an over whelming amount of shots, even terminators statistically have to die to bolter fire if there's enough bolter fire, the key is forcing standard deviation to work in your favor.

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Re: My Necrons

Post  Guest on Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:47 pm

Must say I agree with Smackman, I'm not at all impressed by Scarabs. Though that might be due to the abundance of STR 6+ I sport, which can insta-jib them.

On another note, I have an idea...
I play guard Tank army, why not see How good your Necrons do vs me?

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Re: My Necrons

Post  Guest on Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:01 pm

Lots of things to comment on, lots of good ideas stemming through and a good amount of debate. I like it Very Happy

First off, I don't agree with your concept of 3 destroyers being better for phase out than a monolith.
Your argument is that the Monolith can be used for anti-tank and help Phase Out.

What I don't get is how it can do both. The Power Matrix can be used to recycle ONE unit for WBB OR it can be used to fire a S9AP1 template; it cannot do both.

Legally it cannot recycle a full squad of Destroyers (as they won't fit), so that's instantly put down.

They're also not much use for Heavy Destroyers as if they're all dead - and trust me, with only 3 on the board, it's super easy to do - there's no WBB for them.

If I pull out some Necron warriors I'm either pulling them off an objective which they've GTG, in 2/3s of the missions.

I guess I could do it for some Immortals, but 235 points for that is kinda silly...

On the anti-tank point... how is one S9/AP1 hit (if it hits, and there's a chance it'll miss slightly less than 2/3s of the time) with absolutely terrible range better than three S9/AP2 hits that have good range?

As for the armor 14 argument, you are missing the crucial point behind it. Yes, destroyers are better at shooting armors less than 13 or 14 than a monolith is BUT necrons don't have that much of an issue dealing with less armored vehicles. A Lemon Russ with 14 front armor would get sliced to bits by a couple of wraiths attacking rear armor in melee. My problem with not using a monolith is fighting armies that have high armor vehicles like that is basically a kick in the nuts. You lose any likely ability to do anything about it and that can cause very serious problems. Anything heavy destroyers can do at range, the necrons speedy melee guys can do up close. They cost less then heavy destroyers, you get more of them. Its basically the same argument you use against the monilith.

And then the "speedy guys" get assaulted by a power weapon unit and die, or get shot up because they're in rapid fire range. No WBB for them.

think you just want him to use them since you pack all those twin linked railguns into your list which could take out a monolith a round.
Here's another good point. This list is made to fight everyone, not just one army that sucks completely against AV14 (orks). So if I run into Tau with their 4 railguns per turn (half of which are TL), there goes 235 points instantly.

My friend who plays Tau has always, always blown up my monolith on the first turn he has been able to shoot at it. So I'm a little "scarred", but I've learned that they're nothing more than a gimmick.

they do struggle more so than other in 5th right now.
Sadly this is true, and I learned this after I purchased all ~4 000 points of Necrons. Oh well, I still enjoy their playstyle (even if it's defined as "losing a lot" Razz ), love their fluff, and do like the models.

quick scan I'd say your phase out number is 12? that's good
11, actually. It is a strong Phase Out when combined with the loads of fast T5.

they'll lower his units average toughness to 3 for shooting
Anyone bothering to shoot at them before they're not in assault is stupid, good luck burning through my 2+ cover save and 27 wounds. Oh, and I'm Fearless so I won't be pinned nor will I run away.

The only thing that scares the pants off Scarabs in shooting are flamers, particularily those from a LRR or Hellhound. That is seriously the scariest thing ever. Wound on 2+, no armour, no cover, AND 2 swarms die per wound.

the lord is forced to make LD check at 10-6 (if your lucky, but it'll probably be 10-8 or something) then he gets swept and can't WBB,
Huh? Scarabs give the Lord big balls; he becomes Fearless if he joins them (as they're Fearless and IC's joining a Fearless unit become Fearless themselves), so he won't ever be SA'd thus he'll always be able to get up.

then seriously ponder the spiders
Spyder's allow my army to branch out so I don't have to stick together in a nice "template me" formation. The 12" extended WBB means that my Heavy Destroyers can go around to pop vehicles on either side, and if they get wiped out (3 models isn't that hard) they can just teleport to the other H. Destroyer squadron instead of having 195 points instantly lost.

never make more then 1 scarab per spider
If my opponent is fielding a lot of big guns, more swarms are better. If he's throwing small bolter fire at me, then yes, definitely one swarm per Spyder so your pathetic lasguns/bolters merely tickle me. But if he's going to be insta-killing them anyway (remember that a wound allocated to a Scarab swarm that's S6 or better always insta-kills it, regardless of if majority toughness is 6), why not have more ablative wounds? Especially when I can stack insta-kills on already dead swarms... and they keep coming back Smile

I think you miss the point of the Spyders and the Scarabs... they are both preferred to be anti-vehicle, or annoy/tie up a unit that's not meant for CC. I would not assault a group of Terminators or assault marines with these guys (maybe a tac squad with just the Lord if I was feeling extremely bold), I would just shoot them to death. The assault-y units in my army are for killing vehicles and tying up shooty units. Yes your railguns scare me, but not when your Broadsides only get 1-2 rounds of shooting and then have to tear through my Scarabs. So I just popped that transport with the PBS in it... have fun trying to chew away at my Scarabs that just assaulted you.

Spyders are monstrous creatures, and it doesn't much matter their WS when I'm hitting a vehicle that either hasn't moved or I've immobilized with my Gauss, does it? 4 6+2D6 attacks against rear armour makes most vehicles a very sad panda very quickly.

EVERYTHING that shoots and has a Gauss weapon is anti tank,
Change "anti" to "annoy" and you have it correct IMHO. That tactic is about as sound as Necron anti-psyker defence - "pray he rolls boxcars" Laughing When I have to dedicate an entire unit's round of shooting so they can MAYBE render it unusable for the next turn only, it's kind of... well, pointless. When there's nothing better to shoot, yes, that's what makes Necron foot troops great - it kinda sorta makes up for their god-awful dedicated anti-tank options, but it's a far cry from being worth the extra points Necrons cost.

Wraiths are good
They are mulched too easily to be any good. Their squad size is their greatest liability, not to mention their asinine toughness. I don't care if they have a 3+ invul, the T4 means that bolter fire (hell, even lasgun fire with FRF!SRF!) can down them very easily - just force enough wounds and they won't get back up.

The more Wraiths I take, the less Destroyers I can field - and Destroyers are far better than Wraiths. And Scarabs can be used in a variety of ways. I can assault vehicles and annoy them (remember that Wraith's can't do jack all to rear 13/14 whereas Scarabs can, and they get a lot more attacks) or go after some annoying shooty unit that doesn't stand a chance against that many wounds.

Must say I agree with Smackman, I'm not at all impressed by Scarabs. Though that might be due to the abundance of STR 6+ I sport, which can insta-jib them.
The nice thing about scarabs is the 2+ cover save they'll pretty much always get. You may field "a lot" of S6 or better but my cover saves laugh at most of it. Due to a "rules glitch" Scarabs get the Swarm USR and their codex rule which modifies their cover save by +2. I don't really agree with it but apparently it's the ruling that GW's tournaments (and indeed a lot of popular ones) use, so.


I play guard Tank army, why not see How good your Necrons do vs me?
I've seen this list played against mechanized Imp Guard and it actually fares pretty well (not the best list ever but still), but it was from a player of much greater skill than me. I also played it against my friend's mechanized Imp guard and it absolutely crushed him (granted his tactics were terrible, but still Razz ). I think this is about as strong as Necrons get in 5th. Although I still can't make up my mind on the Destroyer Lord vs. the foot-slogging one.

I want to see some more games with my Necrons so I don't feel like I wasted money on them, even if it means losing a lot Wink

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Re: My Necrons

Post  Guest on Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:37 pm

Updated the list, I'm convinced that a Destroyer lord would be A Good Thing™. Also killed the PPC, the previous advantage of having it (creating a complex unit that allowed for better wound allocation) has died off with the creation of the D.Lord instead of the F.Lord.

I wanna see these guys do something on Wednesday next week Very Happy

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update

Post  Guest on Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:06 am

TRIPLE POST!!!

Anyway, I updated the first post with lists ranging from 500 points all the way up to 2 000. The 500-900 lists respect the League recon rules.

Comments on the progression are welcome, I think it's fairly solid although I am always looking to re-tool it for maximum efficiency.

And doing this in-depth has made me want to actually print out my lists and carry them with me, as I've been playing short AGAIN with my 1 750 lists.

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Re: My Necrons

Post  Administratum on Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:02 am

I wish i could comment, but i think the necron codex is the one that i know the least about. I did notice that your win ration (at the bottom of your sig) has improved, so things must be moving in the right direction.

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Re: My Necrons

Post  Guest on Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:27 pm

I've gotten some practice with this army so I know well how to use it.

Anyway, my 2nd edition necron "raiders" arrived and I'll be using them as immortals. God these models are ugly Razz

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Re: My Necrons

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