Tank Hunting Veterans

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Tank Hunting Veterans

Post  Administratum on Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:27 am

Hey, im pretty rusty on teh rules, and i have not played with 5th ed much, so im wondering if i can get some input, especially from the IG vets.

What do you think of taking a vet squad equipped as follows.

Doctrines: demolitions
Gunners Sergeant Harker
3x melta gun

Thinking the squad could flank... and blow up tanks. What i dont know is how effective flank is. Seems to me that there is too much opportunity for them to come in on the wrong edge and be useless, especially given that there seem to be so many unites that give you negative modifiers to reserves, and make you reroll table edges and such. Would a deepstriking 5 man stormtrooper squad be better? Also, how bad would these options be for kill points? Is it like a freebe?

The other option is to leave the squad in a chimera, with a vet searg with a fist instead of harker. Drive up and jump out... would that be more effective?

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Re: Tank Hunting Veterans

Post  Guest on Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:31 am

I think the stormies would be better for tank hunting. Taking Harker is kinda counter-productive to tank-hunting IMO, I much prefer him for mid-range infantry killing.

The problem I have with outflanking melta guns is they probably won't get within melta range regardless of the side you come in on. If the opponents tanks are a foot from either edge, well.. *shrug* no (extra) dice. Stormies with Airborne Assault can deepstrike and reroll scatter, giving them a good chance of getting within 6" of the rear of whatever you wanna kill. (Astropath helps bringing them in sooner too)

On the other hand, outflank CAN get some fairly precise positioning if you take an Astropath. +1 to reserve rolls(So they can come in sooner more often), and you can reroll table edge for outflank if you don't like it. That gives you a 8/9 chance of coming in where you want, which is fairly consistant. (For those wondering on the math there... 1,2=left edge; 3,4=right edge; 5,6=your choice. Meaning you have a 1/3 chance of not ending up where you want. if that DOES happen, you reroll for another 1/3 chance of wrong side. 1/3 of 1/3 = 1/9.)

Keep in mind though, my view is probably clouded by my preferance for longer range weaponry.

Regardless of what you use, if you're running this squad up point blank with your opponent's forces, you're probably handing him a kill point. What you're hoping for is that you blow up his more expensive tank before he kills your squad.

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Re: Tank Hunting Veterans

Post  System Commander on Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:25 am

I think outflanking is great. You have a 66% chance of coming in on the side you want. If you take two such units, then you have a pretty high chance of at least one unit coming in where you want them. And then, as mentioned above the Astropath can give you a boost.

There arent that many things in the game that affect reserves though.. the Master of the Fleet is the only one I can think of.. are there more out there? As for rerolling table edges.. I think there might be a couple.. (ae you talking about beginning of the game table edges?) but again, definitely not that many.

Harker does give the unit move through cover and I believe camo cloaks or stealth or something, so good for moving up.. but your almost better off ditching him if your looking to take out tanks.

Are you still taking the 2 Devil Dogs? Aren't they scouts? If so, you can outflank with them.. so you may not even need vets outflanking for that purpose.

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Re: Tank Hunting Veterans

Post  gluvzer on Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:11 pm

Sorry Robyn, Devil Dogs are not scouts, so no flanking MM for Cam.

If you want your tank busting vets to outflank you have to give them either Harker or a Valkeryie/Vendetta with a Astropath in your command. However, I don't like the short range of tank busting capability of the squad walking onto a table edge. If I knew they were coming I wouldn't put anything important within 18" of the table edge. If you don't want to take Valkeryies or Vendettas I would recommend either 5 man Storm trooper squads grav-chuting with 2 meltaguns or putting your tank-busting guys in a chimera and hoping it can drive em' to a tank to busticate!

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Re: Tank Hunting Veterans

Post  Guest on Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:46 pm

Creed grants any unit in your army Scout too, so can be handy for outflanking all sorts of things.

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Re: Tank Hunting Veterans

Post  System Commander on Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:50 pm

Ahh, ok.. I couldnt remember. For some reason, in the last game I had against Stash, I thought his Banewolf had come on the from one of the side board edges.. I know I was paranoid as hell waiting for it to show up. I think it did just drive on and he must of rolled for his Vendetta.. my mistake!

12" move and fire for the Banewolf/Devil dog is already damn good, I guess they definitely dont need to be outflanking as well.

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Re: Tank Hunting Veterans

Post  Terran on Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:55 am

Eldar Autarch's give you a +1 bonus on reserve rolls per Autarch (they faq'ed it so you can stack them, unlike Guard). It is too bad they just aren't as useful as a Farseer.

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Re: Tank Hunting Veterans

Post  Administratum on Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:53 pm

Actually when i saw that the devil dog melta cannon was a template weapon i kind of reconsidered. With the average scatter being 4 inches, i think that template will shoot right off most tanks. Instead i put 3 bane wolves in the list, and upgraded them to have multimeltas. I know its usually a misstake to dual role things, but i figure if i face a mech list, the toxin cannon will be less effective anyway, so then shoot the multimelta. Is my reasoning bad here? Its only 15 points a piece to put the best tank busting weapon in the game on a fast unit... with 12 armor none the less.

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Re: Tank Hunting Veterans

Post  Lord_Commander_Stash on Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:22 am

LexMechanic wrote:Actually when i saw that the devil dog melta cannon was a template weapon i kind of reconsidered. With the average scatter being 4 inches, i think that template will shoot right off most tanks. Instead i put 3 bane wolves in the list, and upgraded them to have multimeltas. I know its usually a misstake to dual role things, but i figure if i face a mech list, the toxin cannon will be less effective anyway, so then shoot the multimelta. Is my reasoning bad here? Its only 15 points a piece to put the best tank busting weapon in the game on a fast unit... with 12 armor none the less.

I think the heavy flamer is far better on the bane wolf. You annihilate and large infantry squad with the two flamers.

3 meltaguns flying around plus random lascannons, should be enough anti tank.

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Re: Tank Hunting Veterans

Post  Administratum on Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:13 am

Yea, the heavy flamer is a much better option for pure effectiveness... your probably right, ill have to see if i can squeeze a stromtrooper squad in. I got rid of all my lascannons. It seems that no matter who you talk to, lascannons just never get the job done... especially with bs3

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Re: Tank Hunting Veterans

Post  Guardian Angel on Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:03 am

I have never tried it, but I alway thought a Hellhound with a Multi-Melta would be useful. Again, dual role....not focused, but still.....kill a tank or take out a swath of infantry.

I do agree with the general consensus.....outflanking and walking not so great......outflanking in a Valkyrie or a Vendetta....nasty. Especially a Vendetta if you wanna tank hunt.....3 TL lascannons able to hit side or rear armour....ouch.

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Re: Tank Hunting Veterans

Post  gluvzer on Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:43 am

LexMechanic wrote:Yea, the heavy flamer is a much better option for pure effectiveness... your probably right, ill have to see if i can squeeze a stromtrooper squad in. I got rid of all my lascannons. It seems that no matter who you talk to, lascannons just never get the job done... especially with bs3

I've been taking one lascannon in a squad of shooty veterans. Found it to be useful on occassion and gives your HQ someone to issue "bring it down" to against Big tanks.

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Re: Tank Hunting Veterans

Post  Administratum on Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:10 pm

I was also wondering if you would consider putting a lascannon right in the command squad? I think you told me a reason not too, but i cant remember what it was...

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Re: Tank Hunting Veterans

Post  gluvzer on Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:28 pm

Here's my take on command squads. By no means should it be considered the all out right way to use em', but it's what I think.

Since 3rd ed. I've used my Guard command squad as a counter-attack squad and always mounted in a chimera. Back in 3rd I'd give my commander a power fist, add a commissar with a fist, both plasma pistols and the squad men to have melta's or flamer's. The squad could drive 12" to a problem spot jump out shoot plasma and melta death and then assault with 2 fists. Since the game has evolved, now I view them more as a Order giving unit that can also drive over get out (only if they have had to move over 6") and shoot meltaguns or flamers and have a fist on the commander to help deal with any survivors from the shooting that will definately assault you.

Plasma guns could be another option, but an expensive one. I'd hope to only shoot them at monstrous creatures and light vehicles using the "bring it down" order so you can re-roll those 1's that will kill you. But some armies you face may not have either of these, so shooting this unit could be deadly for your own men.

Heavy weapons just don't fit in with my style of always needing to move my command squad to support areas in my lines or support an attack on theirs. Besides BS 4 meltaguns are pretty sweet in the hands of a guardsman in an armoured 12 vehicle (just don't let that vehicle get assaulted).

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Re: Tank Hunting Veterans

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