Robyn's Daemon List - New League

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Robyn's Daemon List - New League

Post  System Commander on Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:19 pm

So I'm going to play with a Daemon list this next time around and see how they play out. I've only played a couple games with them so far.. so dont have much experience with them yet. I know that everything got shot up really, really quick, so I'll have to look at a way to remedy that.

I'll be sticking with primarily Khorne units, but I will be mixing everything up while working towards a list I like. Even then, like with my chaos lists, I'll probably take something different every game.

So, my working list will be something like this:

Skarbrand
Skulltaker/Herdald of Khorne
Herald of Slaneesh on Chariot

Bloodletters - 20
Bloodletters - 8
Daemonettes - 10
Daemonettes - 9
Horrors - 6
Horrors - 6

Bloodcrushers - 3
Flamers - 3

Fleshounds - 8

Daemon Prince
Daemon Prince

Thats about 2000 points, give or take a bit. I've got another unit of Flesh Hounds I'll be trying out as well as another Bloodthirster. I will try a few games with a Bloodthirster and Skarbrand to see if I like that.. 4 monstrous creatures will be pretty intimidating I think.. but they pretty make up my entire contingency of anti-tank ability.

I'm going to pick up a Soul grinder shortly, and and hoping to substitute it for one of the princes. Id love to use some plaguebearers, but until a plastic version come out, Ill be skipping them.

The only other thing in the book I'd be interested in trying would be some nurglings.. as they are such a potent tar pit unit. However, I think my main goal is to make sure a good portion of my units will benefit from Skarbrands power, more so then my opponents will. I think this holds up except for the flamers, which Im not sold are worth the points yet.. and the horrors.. in which I desparately need some shooting.

I'll be carrying an icon on the Bloodletters and the Bloodcrushers, and splitting them up for the deep strike purposes. I'm hoping the 20 Bloodletters can weather a turn of shooting if needed to keep the icon around.. same for the Bloodcrushers. I anticipate though that I may have to add another Bloodcrusher.. and I havent decided yet if I should put Skulltaker on one, or another Herald. I definitely need some more practice still.

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Re: Robyn's Daemon List - New League

Post  Terran on Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:43 pm

In the words of Mr. T "I pity the fool that tries to assault that list".

Look like it will be pretty devastating in CC. Not sure if the ranged units you have will really end up being worth it, though I would at least keep the flamers. Templates could be nice anti-horde shooting.

Otherwise, it looks nice. and by 'nice', I mean 'scary'.

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Re: Robyn's Daemon List - New League

Post  System Commander on Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:07 pm

I would take more Bloodletters or Daemonettes,.. but I really need a couple units that can sit on an obective, and at least do something. I think the horrors will be good for finishing off the odd straggler unit that has a couple guys left.

If Skarbrand doesnt work out, I can go with 2 Bloodthirsters as an option as well.. but Imight save that for the playoffs.. I know I wouldnt be to excited about having to face two of them.

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Re: Robyn's Daemon List - New League

Post  Paz on Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:10 pm

Some thoughts as a Daemon vet:

Bloodletters are not a good icon holder unit. They die easily, and have to use cover to survive, often forcing you to move them back (which is terrible for a non-fleeting cc unit). Everyone will want to shoot them, as we all know what bloodletters will do to MEQ and other trooops, especially on the charge. Plague bearers or horrors are better at this, they will be able to move forward because of saves and toughness, meaning your CC can get closer when they come in.
I would not take horrors in units smaller than 10. I started with running smaller units, but because of short range (18) and the dangers fo DSing outta range, wasting them, I take them in large vanguard units, for massed fire, and a safer all or nothing daemon view.
Something to think about for skarbrand is that bloodletters strike at init 4 if they are charged. This means that often, if someone knows Skarbrand's rules, he will take massed fire, or ppl will put their troops in terrain (letters dont have grenades!) this means the enemy will get to re-roll all all those attacks on your poor T4 5+ save expensive dudes! I find skarbrand is a really risky unit to take, as it tells your opponent your strategy, but he does work pretty well with lotsa daemonettes, them being I6 and having grenades (this is referred as the "pimps'n hoes" tactic, my favorite titles manuever Razz ).
Bloodthirsters are fine anyway, they put the fear of god in the enemy, are often faster than fleet GDs, and are tough at T6!
Flamers are totering on the brink of broken in my oppinion. If not for the fact that they are so risky, they obliterate MEQ units wholesale! I take 3 units of 3, that way, you can go ballz out andput em right next to an enemy unit, and if you are lucky, they hit and destroy said unit. If not, so what? 105 points is worth the risk, compared to the 100s of points they can immolate in a turn. And if they survive, S and T4 and 2 base attacks aint bad!
I'm allways unsure of the right combo of a DP. often a khorne DP, iron hide and mark of khorne is cheap and powerful, but my favorite combo is a DP of slaanesh with lash, and breath! lash those enemies in a neat row, and flame em to death!

Overall, Daemons work best when you are willing to risk it all. Playing them defensively will almost allways get you killed (unless you are running the tally of nurgle or Tzeentch fateeweaver-zilla lists. I'm sure I have more tips, but this is all I can think of right now!

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Re: Robyn's Daemon List - New League

Post  Administratum on Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:30 pm

one option for some added anti tank is to take bolt on the horrors and just run them in min size squads as you are. I have heard that the changeling is the best upgrade for the points in the book, so you might want to think about picking him up. The bloodthirster is one of the daemons most effective anti-tank units, so i would really consider adding one over the heralds and the skulltaker. You really need some plague bearers for taking objectives, but i guess thats not an option. From what i have gathered the best mark for a prince is nurgle, but im assuming you will be sticking with khorne. My 2 cents.

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Re: Robyn's Daemon List - New League

Post  System Commander on Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:48 pm

Yup, the horrors all have bolt and one unit will have a changeling.

I was hoping that a 20 strong unit of letters would be enough to hold for a turn with an icon.. if they shot at.. no problem.. as long as I can prevent all 20 from dying..

From the games I've played recently, you really need to have at least one strong unit that can hang back for one objective for sure. The recent Chaos list Ive been palying with always one regular unit of Chaos marines with a heavy weapon and the Icon of Chaos Glory.. and they tend to stick to there objective all game.

Now, will the horors do the same? Im not sure, but I can definitely put them together if its looking like they're dying quickly. But like Cam said, I slpit them into smaller units so I can take a bolt of each one.

I'll have to do some experiements with the Heralds over the Greater Daemons. I use to love having the 2 wound commander in previous editions.. like the poor long lost Chaos Lieut. from codexes past. The Slaneesh herald on a chariot is crazy for its points.. and can flush anyone out of terrain with ease.

Im not convinced Skarbrand will be the best choice all the time.. but Im definitely going to try him out for a bit. I've got the FW bloodthister model Ill be using for him, and the wings are magnetized so I'll be able to swap out the egular wings for burnt stubs when needed.

I would prefer to have a 10 man unit of plaguebearers bringing in an icon, and a 5 man unit of bloodcrushers bringing in the other.. but until I get there Ill have to stick with the Bloodletters. I really dont want to give it to Daemonettes..

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Re: Robyn's Daemon List - New League

Post  Paz on Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:38 pm

I ran the same idea for horrors Cam and Robyn, the 5 man min with bolt, but remember, thats BS3 for the bolt. I find it then wastes the benefit of having all those mass shots, into a wound deliverance package for a bad bs shot. Also think about what is coming in per turn, a bunch of smaller units means less room to jump in, and division for first turn wave.
I agree about the bloodthirsters. wings and and MC is the best option for anti tank Daemons really have, you dont want your horrors missing, to see a tank take out chunks of your army piecemeal.

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Re: Robyn's Daemon List - New League

Post  Administratum on Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:08 am

Hey Robyn, i just realized that i have 7 plague bearers, and and 11 nurglings. Wanna trade me for some IG stuff? A couple of the plague bearers have paint on them, but ill strip them so long as you are willing to trade for stuff thats NIB.

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Re: Robyn's Daemon List - New League

Post  System Commander on Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:45 am

Ive got no new Guard stuff right now.. everything Ive got is out of the box. I think the only thing I have in the box is one heavy weapons team I got from PA.

I have to play a few games here and see how things go.. Im not 100% sure about adding any nurgle in yet.. not to mention 100% Ill even like the army. I really want to play some daemonhunters/guard, but thought Id take a seat this league and play the bad guy.. I think we'll have a few guard armies this time aorund. Although I believe Stash mentioned he'd be daemoning it up as well.

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Re: Robyn's Daemon List - New League

Post  Paz on Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:10 am

Sooo... After using bloodcrushers for the first time last night, i'd have to say they are a must have for daemons.

Rediculous unit! Tough ( 4 and skulltaker on jugg took on an entire 1500 pts of marine shooting for a round, only losing 1 crusher), hits hard ( killed a dread, a tactical squad, a sternguard squad, a librarian, and a scout squad)!

Now I know why all the tactica's suggest you take a million of these killers. Shocked Shocked

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Re: Robyn's Daemon List - New League

Post  Veyure on Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:03 pm

don't get too excited on only 1 success

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Re: Robyn's Daemon List - New League

Post  Guest on Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:19 pm

The plural of anecdote isn't data. The singular of anecdote isn't really anything at all...

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Re: Robyn's Daemon List - New League

Post  Paz on Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:36 pm

Thanks for the snide remark Rolling Eyes

As a daemon player who has more than quite a few battles under his belt, this unit fulfills a much needed niche: tough, lotsa wounds, and dangerous in melee. Many daemon units have some of these, but not all, blood-crushers can really be a core unit.
And I don't think I am too forward in rejoicing for the unit's success.

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Re: Robyn's Daemon List - New League

Post  System Commander on Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:28 pm

GodHead wrote:The plural of anecdote isn't data. The singular of anecdote isn't really anything at all...

Whats this supposed to mean?

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Re: Robyn's Daemon List - New League

Post  Guest on Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:20 am

Wasn't supposed to be anything serious. Just a tongue in cheek statement that along the lines that there is a large evidentiary gap between a unit doing well in a single game and taking a million of them every single game.

There's a skeptical saying that the plural of anecdote is not data, which is a slap to the woo peddlers and faith healers who rely upon testimony of "satisfied customers" where they say the product worked for them. Even when there's a "lot" of testimony, it's an unreliable form of evidence that is inadequate to substantiate the claims.

Likewise, stellar performance in a single game is inadequate to substantiate the claim that a unit is worth taking to extremes.

Wasn't really meant in all seriousness, wasn't meant to be snide, just meant to reign in some overly enthusiastic optimism.

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Re: Robyn's Daemon List - New League

Post  Paz on Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:04 am

Fair enough. I think I will remain optimistic though, as I don't plan to play a million games to scientifically prove the unit is the best. This unit did the best right out of the gate than any other unit I've run yet with daemons, and it wasnt becuase of good scatter or redicoulous saves (i failed about 1/3rd of my 3+ saves). The unit is just a shyte brick house.

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Re: Robyn's Daemon List - New League

Post  System Commander on Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:26 am

On paper, it looks mean as hell. I'd love to have 5-6 for a squad.. but that;s pushing up to $200 for one squad.. eek!

I'll prob pick another one here and there .. what I'm really hoping for is that down the line.. the Worldeaters codex will come out, and we'll be able to summon Bloodletters and Bloodcrushers.. !!

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Re: Robyn's Daemon List - New League

Post  Paz on Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:43 pm

yeah, the metal models are pricy... I plan to get around that with Ogre kingdoms iron guts, 40 bucks for 4, and they look like they crush stuff! add some horns and such, and you have unique daemonic dudes for cheap.

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Re: Robyn's Daemon List - New League

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