Non-Tratior, Non-Mech, Guard list

Unlike some people, I make new threads to discuss my army list, rather than just trying to take over someone else's.

1700 points
HQ
Company Command Squad
Carapace Armour
Medi-pack
3 Flamers
Creed
MoO

Elite
5 Stormtroopers
2 Meltaguns

Troops
Vet Squad
Grenadiers
3 Plasmaguns
Sarge with Plasma Pistol

Vet Squad
Grenadiers
3 Plasmaguns
Sarge with Plasma Pistol

Vet Squad
Grenadiers
3 Meltaguns

Vet Squad
Grenadiers
3 Meltaguns

Heavy
2 Medusae
Bastion Breachers
Heavy Flamers
Enclosed Crew Compartments
1 with HK Missile

Leman Russ Punisher
Lascannon
MM Sponsons
HK Missile
Pask
Camo Netting

Manticore

Yeah, that's a 300+ point crappy tank, yeah that's a lot of 4+ save infantry without transports, yeah that's Stormtroopers. Bad choices all - but they look damn cool.

Yeah, I don't expect it to be an easy army to learn the game with... Oh well.

I plan to give my Medusae Scout and use them to Outflank. I figure that should be a pretty terrifying unit to have showing up on a table edge, and with their 48" range, it shouldn't matter TOO much which edge they end up on.

The first thing i notice is the plasma pistols on your vet sergeants. I know people will argue with me, but i hate plasma pistols on 1 wound guys. I mean, you will only get to shoot it once a game, and there is a chance it will kill your own guy... that is a waste of points if you ask me. I would go with a fist instead.

I think that the heavy flamers on the medusa are a waste as well. You dont want these guys anywhere near the enemy, i would stick with the heavy bolter.

Lascannon and multimelta sponsoons on a punisher are a very odd choice. The punnisher is anti-infantry imo, and mixing roles is never a good idea. If you are going to shoot infantry with it, then go with 3 heavy bolters. If you are going to shoot tanks with it, then use a different unit.

Of course i am fairly new to guard, but these are the things i see that diminish the effectiveness of your army just on principle.

Yeah, the Plasma Pistols are a bit of a waste, but I have the models, and don't fancy cutting them all up to get rid of them. I wish they could be equipped with just a lasgun. One of the stupidest things in the book is that Sarge's can't have a regular weapon.

The Heavy Flamers on the Medusae aren't something I will be looking to make the most of during a game, they're the backup, "OH =I=censor=I=!" plan for when they get swarmed with Orks or Gaunts or what have you. The Heavy Bolter would never really get fired at range (except if the Medusa Cannon somehow gets knocked off without blowing up the Medusa itself), and the Heavy Flamer is infinitely more valuable when swamped.

As to the schizo tank. With the setup it has now, it is actually pretty good against anything. I am normally against versatility and a big fan of specializing, but in this case it's actually kind of interesting. With Pask in the seat, it can beat the hell out of AV 10, 11 and 12 like there's no tomorrow. The Punisher Cannon hitting on 3's will still mulch anything up to Terminators, and it really does a number on Monstrous Creatures, even when it wounds on 6's.

Of course it's range challenged, but no matter what does end up in range, it can reliably threaten it - from Land Raiders to Gretchin.

Again, of course, it's still a stupid, stupid tank, and 305 points for it (or any tank) is way too much. But I've seen too much poo pooing of the Punisher online to NOT take one.

I don't think it will do very well against orks, chaos, nids, spacemarines, or demons because it offers nothing really spectacular for close combat, so you might get a round of shooting... maybe, unless the orks waaaaagh, the nids fleet, spacemarines use jump packs, or chaos hop out of a LR. This problem isn't really backed up by good solid long range fire that would get 2 possibly 3 turns of fire before being engaged to their death.

The second problem with having a short range, weak armor, too few troops guardsmen list, is that they're all out in the open so anything with range will rock it's world, spacemarines, eldar, chaos, necrons, other guard lists and even orks. All of those army's can put templates on your guard from farther away then your army can deal with, chaos defilers, guard battle tanks + mortars, ork lobba's, the necron monolith would have fun against this list, only 1 las.

I don't know anything about guard so I can't suggest how you should fix it but I'm sure there's stuff in the codex, and I'm not suggesting you model your army to spank necrons lol. I'm saying that maybe you should have a focus in your army, like mobility, heavy firepower or shear weight of numbers. This list would be deadly in transports, lots of high str high ap weapons hoping out of transports right next to high points targets and blasting them away, but when you foot slog some very expensive guns that can only fire 12" on the move it's going to be a really tough fight with some favors owed to the dice gods to pull off a tie in 5 turns.

Seems harsh. I'm ok with it though.

I've played 3 games with my foot sloggin guard and i haven't lost yet. guard can be played well enough without vehicles as well as with vehicles. I think the dex was very well designed to work well with almost any combo of units you use.

An encouraging reply?

I don't think I am quite prepared for that.

You're not just setting me up so that when I get blown away I will get really REALLY sad are you?

Greg I'll challenge those foot sloggin guardsmen any day you like.

To clarify though i use platoons and few vets. no vehicles (other than sentinel scouts) and biggest i've played is 1000 points. just to get some perspective. To compliment them i'm going to add some artillery and i think it'll be a pretty strong force.

Just think too, all those anti tank weapons in your opponents army that cost so many points are now good enough to kill... a guardsman. good way for a 20 point lascannon to earn it's keep.

I'm gunna throw positive reviews in here as well, I run a footsloggin' low on armor guard (well traitor, or "tratior" guard" and I've had a fairly even win/lose streak. Its not epic win, but I have fun, and that's what counts right?

That's all I'm aiming for.