Counter Attack and other bonuses

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Counter Attack and other bonuses

Post  System Commander on Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:29 pm

So, Paz brought this up last week at the den, regarding Straken's aura to give counter attack and furious charge. The question was does the unit being assaulted get the bonus attack,plus any other benefits of assaulting such as Furious Charge.

The ability of counter attack says that the unit gets +1, as if it assaulted that turn. After doing some more research and surfing about the forums, I'll have to stand with my original opinion in that the unit counter attacking only gets the +1 attack lie the rule says, and does not receive any other benefits.

The way I see it, the rule specifically says like the unit assaulted, and not treat it as an assault. If you let the rule go as if it was a new assault, you'd have to worry about furious charge, defensive grenades, blood claws getting +2 attacks, and a bunch of other funky things.

If you can make a strong argument against it, I can definitely listen, but from what I've read and understand, you only get +1 attack, nuttin' else.

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Re: Counter Attack and other bonuses

Post  Paz on Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:22 pm

Makes sense Robyn. It was wishful thinking I guess, but I'll accept that ruling.

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Re: Counter Attack and other bonuses

Post  Guest on Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:05 am

yeah, we had a big discussion about it over on Librarium a while back and that was the general concensus over there too.

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Re: Counter Attack and other bonuses

Post  Guest on Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:46 pm

Just thought I'd Thread Necro briefly to add a new development.

Space Wolves FAQ came out recently, and one of the examples outright permits the bonus of furious charge being applied to counter-attack. Weird huh? =/

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Re: Counter Attack and other bonuses

Post  gluvzer on Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:55 pm

Caros wrote:Just thought I'd Thread Necro briefly to add a new development.

Space Wolves FAQ came out recently, and one of the examples outright permits the bonus of furious charge being applied to counter-attack. Weird huh? =/

nice threadomancy or memory or whatever. I saw this as well in the space wolf FAQ. So GW's postition is they stack? No mention in guard FAQ?

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Re: Counter Attack and other bonuses

Post  Guest on Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:27 pm

I'm guessing so. There is no official word on it, but 40k is a lot like the legal system. Its all about precedence.

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Re: Counter Attack and other bonuses

Post  Guest on Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:13 pm

If they can do it, so can we. *crosses arms defiantly*

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Re: Counter Attack and other bonuses

Post  System Commander on Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:58 pm

Thanks for bringing this up, I was going to dragup the post as well after reading the Space Wolves Faq. Looks like the Col. has got some beating to dish out.

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Re: Counter Attack and other bonuses

Post  Guest on Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:54 am

No prob, I just had to post it somewhere. The whole thing just boggled my mind, because up until now every reputable source (BoLS, Librarium, Here etc.) treated it the opposite way.

This just in GW flips common sense the bird. More at 11. Hehe.

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Re: Counter Attack and other bonuses

Post  Paz on Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:03 am

AWESOME.

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Re: Counter Attack and other bonuses

Post  gluvzer on Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:36 am

System Commander wrote:Thanks for bringing this up, I was going to dragup the post as well after reading the Space Wolves Faq. Looks like the Col. has got some beating to dish out.

Imagine those 50 man mob squads with 5 power weapons now!!

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Re: Counter Attack and other bonuses

Post  Guardian Angel on Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:02 pm

gluvzer wrote:
System Commander wrote:Thanks for bringing this up, I was going to dragup the post as well after reading the Space Wolves Faq. Looks like the Col. has got some beating to dish out.

Imagine those 50 man mob squads with 5 power weapons now!!

Or....if ya throw in a Commisar in every squad.....10 power Weapons.....lol!!!

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Re: Counter Attack and other bonuses

Post  Guest on Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:52 pm

Guardian Angel wrote:
gluvzer wrote:
System Commander wrote:Thanks for bringing this up, I was going to dragup the post as well after reading the Space Wolves Faq. Looks like the Col. has got some beating to dish out.

Imagine those 50 man mob squads with 5 power weapons now!!

Or....if ya throw in a Commisar in every squad.....10 power Weapons.....lol!!!

This has the potential to create some very dangerous situations. A 15 model pack of blood claws can dish out up to 60 attatcks (1 attack + 1 for 2 hand weapons + 2 for charging). A 10 model pack of wolf guard can get up to 68 attatcks (2 attatcks + 1 for 2 hand waepons + D3 for charging + Ragnars 5 attatcks) all with power or frost weapons if joined by Ragnar Blackmane and the dice gods shine on you.

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Re: Counter Attack and other bonuses

Post  Guest on Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:13 pm

I don't think bloodclaws get the extra attacks for counter-attacking. In fact, don't have my codex handy, but I believe it expressly prohibits that in their entry.

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Re: Counter Attack and other bonuses

Post  Guest on Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:36 pm

Caros wrote:I don't think bloodclaws get the extra attacks for counter-attacking. In fact, don't have my codex handy, but I believe it expressly prohibits that in their entry.

Sorry about that Carlos. You are right. Too bad about that little footnote. I got excited enough that it slipped my mind.

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Re: Counter Attack and other bonuses

Post  gluvzer on Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:34 pm

Guardian Angel wrote:
gluvzer wrote:
System Commander wrote:Thanks for bringing this up, I was going to dragup the post as well after reading the Space Wolves Faq. Looks like the Col. has got some beating to dish out.

Imagine those 50 man mob squads with 5 power weapons now!!

Or....if ya throw in a Commisar in every squad.....10 power Weapons.....lol!!!

For sure! You have to have at least 1 so the unit is stubborn, and for the summary execution.

5 squads all like this:
power wpn, grenade launcher, commisar, power wpn

with stracken, the ultimate beatdown. Without stracken the ultimate objective getter, and tie-up unit. It never runs away! But those may be some expensive vet.sergs who take a bullet to the head.

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Re: Counter Attack and other bonuses

Post  Guardian Angel on Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:39 pm

I can see the beauty of 5 Grenade Launchers....but I would be very tempted by a Flamer or 2 in the mix.

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Re: Counter Attack and other bonuses

Post  gluvzer on Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:35 pm

Then you'd have to worry about model placement more. Besides with the rules for maximum hits using blast weapons, 5 templates is pretty darn good.

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Re: Counter Attack and other bonuses

Post  Guest on Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:37 am

The FAQ was changed recently.

Q. Picture this: My Grey Hunters unit including
Ragnar Blackmane is assaulted and makes a
successful Leadership test to Counter-attack. Do
they then benefit from his Furious Charge ability
(+1 S and +1 I)? Also, can the original assaulter
then deploy defensive grenades to rob the Space
Wolves of their Counter-attack bonus?
A. The Counter-attack special rule only confers
the +1 assault bonus and no other advantages
normally associated with assaulting.
Therefore
Ragnar’s unit does not benefit from Furious
Charge. Also, we think it is a bit rich for an
assaulting unit to get the bonus for attacking and
defending, so no, defensive grenades cannot be
used to negate the bonus attack from counterattacking.


LAME, I guess the meatshield around the tervigon isn't as strong as it used to be.

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Re: Counter Attack and other bonuses

Post  Guest on Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:01 pm

Well, good to know that my gut instinct was right on that ruling. I always thought it was a little bizzare.

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Re: Counter Attack and other bonuses

Post  System Commander on Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:39 am

GW has officially reversed their ruling on Furious charge and counter-attack.

It appears that the whole thing got reversed because of Straken pretty much on his own. If the short time since the Space wolves FAQ came out, Strakens have been appearing in armies all over the place.. typically accompanied by a few platoon squads, commissars and priests.

Im impressed GW actually realized they made a mistake and fixed it.. Im actually shocked beyond belief. Usually it would stuck around for the next 4 four years and we would of all learned to hate the Col.


Last edited by System Commander on Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Counter Attack and other bonuses

Post  Guest on Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:05 pm

That is what is truly amazing about the matter, it shows that GW is smartening up.

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Re: Counter Attack and other bonuses

Post  gluvzer on Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:22 pm

HolyCause wrote:That is what is truly amazing about the matter, it shows that GW is smartening up.

Jumping the Gun. . . This is one instance.

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Re: Counter Attack and other bonuses

Post  Guest on Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:29 pm

gluvzer wrote:
Jumping the Gun. . . This is one instance.
I never hinted at this being the only time.

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Re: Counter Attack and other bonuses

Post  gluvzer on Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:40 pm

HolyCause wrote:
gluvzer wrote:
Jumping the Gun. . . This is one instance.
I never hinted at this being the only time.

Oh... excuse me, my bad, oh my.

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